Right speech

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Johann
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Re: Right speech

Post by Johann »

thepea wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:12 am
Johann wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:14 pm
thepea wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:12 am

So the air puffs vibrating off my tongue are “violent and hurtful”???
These letters on the keyboard are violent when arranged in specific order? Who determines this ?
Although rightly spoken, if my person would call good householder a fool, he might determine the specific arranged order of pixels as "harmful thought toward me", or does he already get's an idea of gotten very misleaded? In that case he might take it with a lot of gratitude, and forgets to make use of it to defend his previous "so is it, not otherwise" dangerous view, disregarding precepts first.
If you want to call me a fool, it is you who is responsible for your speech. If you want to call me misleaded, again it’s you who is responsible for this. I am not foolish or misguided, so.....
Sure? As wrong perceiving and thinking is harmful as well, good householder, for oneself and others, caught in foolish pride and feeling secure, based on this misguided ideas.

What about giving instead of demanding? What about perceiving in manners of right view and gain release by surrender? For whom would invest any toward an hopeless case?
Dhammapardon
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Re: Right speech

Post by Dhammapardon »

thepea wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:04 am So others are responsible for your feelings?
You are responsible for your feelings but they are responsible for their words.
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
thepea
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Re: Right speech

Post by thepea »

Dhammapardon wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:24 am
thepea wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 2:04 am So others are responsible for your feelings?
You are responsible for your feelings but they are responsible for their words.
Exactly!
It is a selfish practice.
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Aloka
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Re: Right speech

Post by Aloka »

We are told to use only RIght Speech for the benefit of those who are not fully enlightened and not in full mastery of their emotions
Hi Kathy,

Could you provide a link to this teaching, please ?

Many thanks,

Aloka :anjali:
KathyLauren
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Re: Right speech

Post by KathyLauren »

Aloka wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:35 pm
We are told to use only RIght Speech for the benefit of those who are not fully enlightened and not in full mastery of their emotions
Hi Kathy,

Could you provide a link to this teaching, please ?

Many thanks,

Aloka :anjali:
No, I can't. I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of scripture. It was just a distillation of my own understanding.

My statement was in the context of a member saying that other people's feelings were their own business, essentially repudiating the concept of compassion. Granted my knowledge of Mahayana is better than my knowledge of Theravada, but it seems to me that compassion plays an important role in all the Buddha's teachings.

Kathy
thepea
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Re: Right speech

Post by thepea »

KathyLauren wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:13 pm
Aloka wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:35 pm
We are told to use only RIght Speech for the benefit of those who are not fully enlightened and not in full mastery of their emotions
Hi Kathy,

Could you provide a link to this teaching, please ?

Many thanks,

Aloka :anjali:
No, I can't. I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of scripture. It was just a distillation of my own understanding.

My statement was in the context of a member saying that other people's feelings were their own business, essentially repudiating the concept of compassion. Granted my knowledge of Mahayana is better than my knowledge of Theravada, but it seems to me that compassion plays an important role in all the Buddha's teachings.

Kathy
You have not comprehended what I’ve spoken Kathy. I accept that others have feelings but these are their responsibility as my feelings are my responsibility. I mind my words and actions and bare zero responsibility for the feelings of others. If my words offend and my words are truth, so be it. They are only words, words do not harm.
Fear causes harm, without a physical threat there can be no harm.
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SDC
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Re: Right speech

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:12 pm
KathyLauren wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:13 pm
Aloka wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:35 pm

Hi Kathy,

Could you provide a link to this teaching, please ?

Many thanks,

Aloka :anjali:
No, I can't. I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of scripture. It was just a distillation of my own understanding.

My statement was in the context of a member saying that other people's feelings were their own business, essentially repudiating the concept of compassion. Granted my knowledge of Mahayana is better than my knowledge of Theravada, but it seems to me that compassion plays an important role in all the Buddha's teachings.

Kathy
You have not comprehended what I’ve spoken Kathy. I accept that others have feelings but these are their responsibility as my feelings are my responsibility. I mind my words and actions and bare zero responsibility for the feelings of others. If my words offend and my words are truth, so be it. They are only words, words do not harm.
Fear causes harm, without a physical threat there can be no harm.
Imagine if the suttas weren’t readily available and people like you could just go around preaching whatever views they wanted and call it Dhamma. We are indeed blessed to not be in such a dark and dangerous world.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
KathyLauren
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Re: Right speech

Post by KathyLauren »

thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:12 pm You have not comprehended what I’ve spoken Kathy.
No, I comprehended you perfectly several pages ago. It is not exactly a profound concept.

I would like you to explain how your belief does not repudiate compassion with regards to speech. What would it mean to speak compassionately? Or do you believe that compassion does not apply to speech simply because speech does not cause physical injury?

Kathy
thepea
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Re: Right speech

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:37 pm
thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:12 pm
KathyLauren wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:13 pm

No, I can't. I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of scripture. It was just a distillation of my own understanding.

My statement was in the context of a member saying that other people's feelings were their own business, essentially repudiating the concept of compassion. Granted my knowledge of Mahayana is better than my knowledge of Theravada, but it seems to me that compassion plays an important role in all the Buddha's teachings.

Kathy
You have not comprehended what I’ve spoken Kathy. I accept that others have feelings but these are their responsibility as my feelings are my responsibility. I mind my words and actions and bare zero responsibility for the feelings of others. If my words offend and my words are truth, so be it. They are only words, words do not harm.
Fear causes harm, without a physical threat there can be no harm.
Imagine if the suttas weren’t readily available and people like you could just go around preaching whatever views they wanted and call it Dhamma. We are indeed blessed to not be in such a dark and dangerous world.
“People like me”???
Care to expand on this?
thepea
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Re: Right speech

Post by thepea »

KathyLauren wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:55 pm
thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:12 pm You have not comprehended what I’ve spoken Kathy.
No, I comprehended you perfectly several pages ago. It is not exactly a profound concept.

I would like you to explain how your belief does not repudiate compassion with regards to speech. What would it mean to speak compassionately? Or do you believe that compassion does not apply to speech simply because speech does not cause physical injury?

Kathy
I don’t believe you have comprehended what I’m pointing towards.
It’s a selfish practice, mind your own business is the game, the puffs of air leaving your mouth is a bi-product.
The sangha is all that needs liberating.

Also what belief? I speak wisdom and truth, I give very little importance to belief.
Last edited by thepea on Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Radix
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Re: Right speech

Post by Radix »

thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:12 pm I accept that others have feelings but these are their responsibility as my feelings are my responsibility. I mind my words and actions and bare zero responsibility for the feelings of others. If my words offend and my words are truth, so be it. They are only words, words do not harm.
Fear causes harm, without a physical threat there can be no harm.
Are you a lawyer? Lol!
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
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Radix
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Re: Right speech

Post by Radix »

KathyLauren wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:55 pm I would like you to explain how your belief does not repudiate compassion with regards to speech.
Mind you, the notion of "hurting people's feelings" with words is not universal across all cultures and time periods. In fact, I think it's the product of American political correctness.

It's yet another American spin on the Dhamma, and I'm afraid it's too late to try to stop that avalanche.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
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Radix
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Re: Right speech

Post by Radix »

thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:25 pm “People like me”???
Care to expand on this?
The operative term is pharisaic:

"emphasizing or observing the letter but not the spirit of religious law"

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dicti ... /pharisaic

But don't you worry, not caring about people's feelings will leave you with no people in your life whose feelings you could hurt, so no hurt feelings at all! :twothumbsup:
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
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SDC
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Re: Right speech

Post by SDC »

thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:25 pm “People like me”???
Care to expand on this?
Nope. I don’t care to expand. What matters most is that a higher standard looms over what every single one of us says, and in your case, completely contains the disastrous views you share. I used to think people like you were a problem, but the real problem is people not looking into matters for themselves. In the end, anyone who has a concern for their own welfare wouldn’t outright trust what they read without investigating it. So, while I think your views are really dangerous, that is mostly an issue for you and those who don’t protect themselves through diligence and responsibility. Your posts serve as a great prompt for this to be said.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
thepea
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Re: Right speech

Post by thepea »

SDC wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:05 pm
thepea wrote: Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:25 pm “People like me”???
Care to expand on this?
Nope. I don’t care to expand. What matters most is that a higher standard looms over what every single one of us says, and in your case, completely contains the disastrous views you share. I used to think people like you were a problem, but the real problem is people not looking into matters for themselves. In the end, anyone who has a concern for their own welfare wouldn’t outright trust what they read without investigating it. So, while I think your views are really dangerous, that is mostly an issue for you and those who don’t protect themselves through diligence and responsibility. Your posts serve as a great prompt for this to be said.
I’m not following you, “people like me” what do people like me do that harms you so?
Is it that you disagree with people like me, the
Minority with unacceptable fringe views?
Last edited by thepea on Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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