Can you work off anantarika karma?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Post Reply
Sha Bac
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue May 17, 2022 7:37 am

Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

Is it possible to work off anantarika karma?

Suppose someone murders his mother. Can he do enough good deeds to avoid hell?
SteRo
Posts: 5950
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:27 am
Location: Εὐρώπη Eurṓpē

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by SteRo »

Adam1234 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:13 pm Is it possible to work off anantarika karma?

Suppose someone murders his mother. Can he do enough good deeds to avoid hell?
I never came across this possibility in the doctrine.
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 17187
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by DNS »

Adam1234 wrote: Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:13 pm Is it possible to work off anantarika karma?
Suppose someone murders his mother. Can he do enough good deeds to avoid hell?
According to that Sutta, no.
User avatar
Johann
Posts: 619
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by Johann »

Sure is one open to go for all and best deeds, which are not lost at all, are the backing afterwards, good householder. Think of the famous King who didn't waste time and steady frequented the Sublime Buddha and the Sangha in all meritorious ways. One wouldn't grow, how ever, in this existance, into the save, and would not be able to avoid the result, gravely denied goodness, hold grave wrong view and acted accordingly.
Sha Bac
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue May 17, 2022 7:37 am

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

So what should a person do who committed anantarika karma? Give to temples? What?
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9062
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by SDC »

Adam1234 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:21 pm So what should a person do who committed anantarika karma? Give to temples? What?
They should first confess the crime to the authorities and face justice.

Beyond that, they may be “ruined” for this life in terms of gaining the right view. (See the conclusion of DN 2, the term is upahata (spoiled, ruined).) As far the fruit of such an action, it is hard to say how to avoid it. In theory, it may not come for eons.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Sha Bac
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue May 17, 2022 7:37 am

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

I read that ajatasattu killed his father but only went to the hell of hot cauldrons for 60,000 years.
User13866
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:50 am

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by User13866 »

My conviction is that it might be so that the guilt associated with comprehending the grossness of one's action will prove overwhelming if one was to try overcoming it, the person will have to die without being able to cancel the going to hell.
Last edited by User13866 on Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sha Bac
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue May 17, 2022 7:37 am

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

Well how did ajatasattu avoid avici hell? Granted he was able to serve the historical Buddha. But I read that he went to the hell of hot cauldrons for only 60,000 years. That is a long time, but it's nothing compared to 8 billion years in avici.
User13866
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:50 am

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by User13866 »

Adam1234 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:44 pm Well how did ajatasattu avoid avici hell? Granted he was able to serve the historical Buddha. But I read that he went to the hell of hot cauldrons for only 60,000 years. That is a long time, but it's nothing compared to 8 billion years in avici.
I am not learned in types of hell. As i understand it a person can still do a lot of merit and mitigate some of the consequences to an extent but he won't be able to attain ariya stages.
patta.1999
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:18 pm

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by patta.1999 »

This is not really a direct answer to the question but maybe it adds some useful insights to it.

Moggallāna killed his parents in one of his previous lives. He married a wicked wife who suggested to kill Moggallāna's parents. For his act he suffered in hell (in the translation below, niraya) for a long time and was killed by assassins in his last life.

The relevant verses from the Dhammapada are 137-140. They were spoken on this occasion:

"Bhikkhus! Considering that Moggallāna had lived a noble life in this existence, he should not have met with such a death. But in one of his past existences, he had done a great wrong to his own parents, who were both blind. In the beginning, he was a very dutiful son, but after his marriage, his wife began to make trouble and she suggested that he should get rid of his parents. He took his blind parents in a cart into a forest, and there he killed them by beating them and making them believe that it was some thief who was beating them. For that evil deed he suffered in niraya for a long time; and in this existence, his last, he has died at the hands of assassins. Indeed, by doing wrong to those who should not be wronged, one is sure to suffer for it." 
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9062
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by SDC »

User13866 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:41 pm My conviction is that it might be so that the guilt associated with comprehending the grossness of one's action will prove overwhelming if one was to try overcoming it, the person will have to die without being able to cancel the going to hell.
That’s what I always took from DN 2 - that the king was tortured on account of what he had done to his father, and ultimately was seeking a doctrine that could help ease his pain. Interesting that the Buddha opted not to tell him how close he was to obtaining the “spotless dhamma eye”. Perhaps the additional loss would’ve just made him suffer that much more.
Last edited by SDC on Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
User avatar
SDC
Posts: 9062
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by SDC »

Adam1234 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:44 pm Well how did ajatasattu avoid avici hell? Granted he was able to serve the historical Buddha. But I read that he went to the hell of hot cauldrons for only 60,000 years. That is a long time, but it's nothing compared to 8 billion years in avici.
Trying to avoid hell seems like a means of trying to escape the reality of one’s actions. It seems the best thing for a person to do if they murdered their parent would be to confess the crime, face the punishment (justice), and find a way to accept and take on the emotional weight of what they did. Worrying about hell, to me, amounts to someone having no remorse and just being worried about the consequences rather than dealing with the wrong view that led to such a grievous act.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Sha Bac
Posts: 1180
Joined: Tue May 17, 2022 7:37 am

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

But what is a person supposed to do? Suppose they feel badly about it even...they cannot develop right view or change the past...
User avatar
cappuccino
Posts: 12879
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
Contact:

Re: Can you work off anantarika karma?

Post by cappuccino »

Adam1234 wrote: Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:32 pm But what is a person supposed to do?
Nothing was done…


Do not worry
Post Reply