Can you work off anantarika karma?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
dharmacorps
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by dharmacorps »

Adam1234 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:03 pm
Suppose you find a wallet. You pick it up and see there's an ID in it. But instead of returning it, you keep it. You keep it because you believe you were meant to have it. Suppose there's money in it that you need. You don't believe you're stealing it...
Then you are both stealing, confused, and deluding yourself.
Sha Bac
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by Sha Bac »

SDC wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:17 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:05 pm
SDC wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:02 pm

Why do you believe that is even possible?
Confusing fantasy for reality
If that is a line you are unable to discern in this case, it might be helpful to avoid categorical decisions in either direction.
You mean you shouldn't act on it?
Sha Bac
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Will Mara go to hell?

Post by Sha Bac »

Will Mara go to hell? Does Mara know this? How long is maras life span?
SarathW
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Re: Will Mara go to hell?

Post by SarathW »

Devas Wielding Power over the Creation of Others (paranimmita-vasavatti deva) These devas enjoy sense pleasures created by others for them. Mara, the personification of delusion and desire, lives here.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dha ... /loka.html

In Buddhism, the Mara is a higher being than the human.
In that sense, yes he has the possibility to degenerate to a lower realm. (Apaya)

Mara's lifespan is mentioned elsewhere but I can't find the link.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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SDC
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by SDC »

Adam1234 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:25 pm
SDC wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:17 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:05 pm

Confusing fantasy for reality
If that is a line you are unable to discern in this case, it might be helpful to avoid categorical decisions in either direction.
You mean you shouldn't act on it?
Sometimes there is nothing that has to be done. Unpleasant thoughts come and go on their own. Don't let the mind force you to make a decision about where thoughts are coming from, where they are going or what they mean. That isn't your choice to make, and oftentimes there isn't an explanation for why there are certain thoughts or moods.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Dhammapardon
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Re: Will Mara go to hell?

Post by Dhammapardon »

Adam1234 wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm Will Mara go to hell? Does Mara know this? How long is maras life span?
Why does this need to be known? You aren't Mara. Find relief in that.
Do your questions bring you closer to your goal or further from it?
Let go of some of these grasped views.
Take homage in the Blessed One, the Dhamma, and the Sangha and find relief.

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā-sambuddhassa :candle:
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
Sha Bac
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by Sha Bac »

So you're all basically saying that it's not possible to use a power you don't know you have. But realizing you have them depends on you using them. So what if it is used impulsively without knowing you have it?
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SDC
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by SDC »

Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:34 am So you're all basically saying that it's not possible to use a power you don't know you have. But realizing you have them depends on you using them. So what if it is used impulsively without knowing you have it?
The suttas describe having to overcome impulsivity in order to have any of the higher knowledges/psychic powers at all. They don’t arise accidentally. That degree of samadhi implies one has developed the mind to the point where these things couldn’t simply happen on their own. Also, any loss of such composure would imply the knowledge is no longer accessible, which is what happened to Devadatta when he abandoned seclusion from unwholesome. In short, these knowledge’s couldn’t possibly be available for a mind not established in seclusion from unwholesome.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Sha Bac
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by Sha Bac »

SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:10 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:34 am So you're all basically saying that it's not possible to use a power you don't know you have. But realizing you have them depends on you using them. So what if it is used impulsively without knowing you have it?
The suttas describe having to overcome impulsivity in order to have any of the higher knowledges/psychic powers at all. They don’t arise accidentally. That degree of samadhi implies one has developed the mind to the point where these things couldn’t simply happen on their own. Also, any loss of such composure would imply the knowledge is no longer accessible, which is what happened to Devadatta when he abandoned seclusion from unwholesome. In short, these knowledge’s couldn’t possibly be available for a mind not established in seclusion from unwholesome.
Thanks. So what about in MN 56 where a recluse could destroy 50 nalandas? Would they lose their power after?
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SDC
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by SDC »

Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:05 pm
SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:10 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:34 am So you're all basically saying that it's not possible to use a power you don't know you have. But realizing you have them depends on you using them. So what if it is used impulsively without knowing you have it?
The suttas describe having to overcome impulsivity in order to have any of the higher knowledges/psychic powers at all. They don’t arise accidentally. That degree of samadhi implies one has developed the mind to the point where these things couldn’t simply happen on their own. Also, any loss of such composure would imply the knowledge is no longer accessible, which is what happened to Devadatta when he abandoned seclusion from unwholesome. In short, these knowledge’s couldn’t possibly be available for a mind not established in seclusion from unwholesome.
Thanks. So what about in MN 56 where a recluse could destroy 50 nalandas? Would they lose their power after?
Not just a recluse, but “an ascetic or brahmin with psychic power, who has achieved mastery of the mind”. Is that the sort of development you are referring to in your example?
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Sha Bac
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by Sha Bac »

SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:24 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:05 pm
SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:10 pm

The suttas describe having to overcome impulsivity in order to have any of the higher knowledges/psychic powers at all. They don’t arise accidentally. That degree of samadhi implies one has developed the mind to the point where these things couldn’t simply happen on their own. Also, any loss of such composure would imply the knowledge is no longer accessible, which is what happened to Devadatta when he abandoned seclusion from unwholesome. In short, these knowledge’s couldn’t possibly be available for a mind not established in seclusion from unwholesome.
Thanks. So what about in MN 56 where a recluse could destroy 50 nalandas? Would they lose their power after?
Not just a recluse, but “an ascetic or brahmin with psychic power, who has achieved mastery of the mind”. Is that the sort of development you are referring to in your example?
I guess so.
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SDC
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by SDC »

Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:28 pm
SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:24 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:05 pm

Thanks. So what about in MN 56 where a recluse could destroy 50 nalandas? Would they lose their power after?
Not just a recluse, but “an ascetic or brahmin with psychic power, who has achieved mastery of the mind”. Is that the sort of development you are referring to in your example?
I guess so.
So, that is the degree of development you had prior to the situation with your mother?
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Sha Bac
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by Sha Bac »

SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:48 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:28 pm
SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:24 pm

Not just a recluse, but “an ascetic or brahmin with psychic power, who has achieved mastery of the mind”. Is that the sort of development you are referring to in your example?
I guess so.
So, that is the degree of development you had prior to the situation with your mother?
Well I had kundalini awaken in 2013. It happened on its own. In my case, I was definitely an ascetic. I didn't drive, had no electricity, no TV, no cell phone. I did yoga and could sit lotus. Idk about the term BRAHMIN. But I was definitely in some sort of higher state. I had the chakras with spiritual vision. I didn't think I was THAT advanced.
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SDC
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by SDC »

Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:54 pm
SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:48 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:28 pm

I guess so.
So, that is the degree of development you had prior to the situation with your mother?
Well I had kundalini awaken in 2013. It happened on its own. In my case, I was definitely an ascetic. I didn't drive, had no electricity, no TV, no cell phone. I did yoga and could sit lotus. Idk about the term BRAHMIN. But I was definitely in some sort of higher state. I had the chakras with spiritual vision. I didn't think I was THAT advanced.
Were you keeping the precepts at the time? Any drugs or alcohol?
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Sha Bac
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Re: Malevolent acts of mind

Post by Sha Bac »

SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:19 pm
Adam1234 wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:54 pm
SDC wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:48 pm

So, that is the degree of development you had prior to the situation with your mother?
Well I had kundalini awaken in 2013. It happened on its own. In my case, I was definitely an ascetic. I didn't drive, had no electricity, no TV, no cell phone. I did yoga and could sit lotus. Idk about the term BRAHMIN. But I was definitely in some sort of higher state. I had the chakras with spiritual vision. I didn't think I was THAT advanced.
Were you keeping the precepts at the time? Any drugs or alcohol?
I mean I wasn't trying to be a bad person. I was celibate and only the only meat I ate was fish. I slept on low beds. I smoked pot for 10 years but wasn't doing so at the time. I can't remember how much I was drinking at the time, but I was probably drinking daily.
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