No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
auto
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No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

http://thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_%203.htm wrote:All works are being done by the Gunas (or the energy and power) of nature, but due to delusion of ego people assume themselves to be the doer. (See also 5.09, 13.29, and 14.19) (3.27)
work - kamma
http://thenazareneway.com/gita%20Chapter%202.htm wrote: One who abandons all desires and becomes free from longing and the feeling of 'I' and 'my' attains peace. (2.71)
sense of self goes away eventually
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cappuccino
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by cappuccino »

Advaita is similar but inferior
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

cappuccino wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:34 pm Advaita is similar but inferior
I say similar, but for me it is same. Advaita and budhism. Not like those who get advaita results will land into some alternate reality.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

http://thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_6.htm wrote:I consider one to be the most devoted of all the yogis who lovingly contemplates on Me with supreme faith, and whose mind is ever absorbed in Me. (See also 12.02 and 18.66) (6.47)
the Me there is maam or mama or aham. It is this form is mine, i am this etc,
https://suttacentral.net/sn22.8/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:It’s when an uneducated ordinary person regards form like this: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self.’
Idha, bhikkhave, assutavā puthujjano rūpaṁ ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti samanupassati.
But how it is to understand is that the sense of I, Me will go away eventually and one attains advaita,
https://www.thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_9.htm wrote: This entire universe is pervaded by Me, the unmanifest Brahman. All beings depend on (or remain in) Me (like a chain depends on gold). I do not depend on them. (See also 7.12) (9.04)
And yet beings, in reality, do not remain in Me. Look at the power of My divine mystery. Though the sustainer and creator of all beings, I do not remain in them. (In reality, the chain does not depend on gold; the chain is nothing but gold. Also, matter and energy are different as well as non-different). (9.05)
'Me' does not remain in all beings. Read it like educated person doesn't consider khandhas as self.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

simply, one realizes the dhammas within the sakkaya(identity) and then goes beyond. Not around without any work.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Johann »

auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 3:04 pm
http://thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_%203.htm wrote:All works are being done by the Gunas (or the energy and power) of nature, but due to delusion of ego people assume themselves to be the doer. (See also 5.09, 13.29, and 14.19) (3.27)
work - kamma
http://thenazareneway.com/gita%20Chapter%202.htm wrote: One who abandons all desires and becomes free from longing and the feeling of 'I' and 'my' attains peace. (2.71)
sense of self goes away eventually
Householder- Upekkha is found on many places, good householder. There are "Buddhist" who believe that they are not hire of their actions. Jains keep such "purification" events, Uposatha. After that they retake their belongings and go home again. Of neither glory, nor benefit, and in the Buddhas word simply: Maha-thieves.
Last edited by Johann on Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Meggo »

They are not similar. Advaita realizes the ultimate Self (Big Self, Brahman, I-Am, Atman, God), while Buddhism sees that as just another empty phenomenon (anatman). The freeing from small self/ ego in Advaita is experienced through strong dissociation, this is why everything other than the big self is experienced as unreal/ maya - (Derealization) and going on by itself without your participation (No-Doer). The only real thing is the Non-Dual experience of Brahman, which is entered and exited through an act of concentration and it is because of that, that it can never be made permanent. So it is impermanent, and therefore suffering. The experience of Atman-Brahman itself is pretty great though.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:21 pm ..
thanks for the input, i disagree,
http://thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_7.htm wrote: After attaining Me the great souls do not incur rebirth, the impermanent home of misery, because they have attained the highest perfection. (8.15)
if you like to call that empty phenomena, the ending of rebirth, go ahead do that but its not what the texts say.
strong disassociation? can't be more wrong, its not what the texts say. Just read links with fresh look, its nothing what the rumors are echoing.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Meggo »

auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:25 pm
Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:21 pm ..
thanks for the input, i disagree,
http://thenazareneway.com/gita_chapter_7.htm wrote: After attaining Me the great souls do not incur rebirth, the impermanent home of misery, because they have attained the highest perfection. (8.15)
if you like to call that empty phenomena, the ending of rebirth, go ahead do that but its not what the texts say.
strong disassociation? can't be more wrong, its not what the texts say. Just read links with fresh look, its nothing what the rumors are echoing.
Are you talking to me? What am i calling empty phenomena?
Strong dissociation occurs towards all worldly things, not towards the Atman-Brahman. That is why all conventional phenomena seem unreal/ illusory. Only the direct meditative experience of Atman-Brahman seems real. The complete absorption into the so calld "Self" shines more brightly than a thousand suns. It becomes the only thing that seems real. This is advaita.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Johann wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:17 pm Householder- Upekkha is found on many places, good householder. There are "Buddhist" who believe that they are not hire of their actions. Jains keep such "purification" events, Uposatha. After that they retake their belongings and go home again. Of neither glory, nor benefit, and in the Buddhas word simply: Maha-thieves.
Sounds random. You should first type what you understood about the quote.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:48 pm Are you talking to me? What am i calling empty phenomena?
Strong dissociation occurs towards all worldly things, not towards the Atman-Brahman. That is why all conventional phenomena seem unreal/ illusory. Only the direct meditative experience of Atman-Brahman seems real. The complete absorption into the so calld "Self" shines more brightly than a thousand suns. It becomes the only thing that seems real. This is advaita.
you said advaita realizes big self. According to the text, the realization of the big self means also the end of rebirth. So, in your opinion according to budhism it(ending of rebirth) is empty phenomena.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:48 pm Strong dissociation occurs towards all worldly things, not towards the Atman-Brahman. That is why all conventional phenomena seem unreal/ illusory. Only the direct meditative experience of Atman-Brahman seems real. The complete absorption into the so calld "Self" shines more brightly than a thousand suns. It becomes the only thing that seems real. This is advaita.
you need bring quote
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Meggo »

auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:05 pm
Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:48 pm Are you talking to me? What am i calling empty phenomena?
Strong dissociation occurs towards all worldly things, not towards the Atman-Brahman. That is why all conventional phenomena seem unreal/ illusory. Only the direct meditative experience of Atman-Brahman seems real. The complete absorption into the so calld "Self" shines more brightly than a thousand suns. It becomes the only thing that seems real. This is advaita.
you said advaita realizes big self. According to the text, the realization of the big self means also the end of rebirth. So, in your opinion according to budhism it(ending of rebirth) is empty phenomena.
Only because a text states that having a specific meditative experience means having ended rebirth, it doesn't have to be so. Also i described previously why it can't be, namely because the state of Atman-Brahman is impermanent, it is a conditioned experience, therefore dukkha. No conditioned experience can be the end of rebirth. And yes, according to buddhism the experience is empty.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by Meggo »

auto wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:07 pm
Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:48 pm Strong dissociation occurs towards all worldly things, not towards the Atman-Brahman. That is why all conventional phenomena seem unreal/ illusory. Only the direct meditative experience of Atman-Brahman seems real. The complete absorption into the so calld "Self" shines more brightly than a thousand suns. It becomes the only thing that seems real. This is advaita.
you need bring quote
This is what somebody experiences who gets absorbed into the big Self and runs around afterwards. A description of a mindstate.
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Re: No doer in advaita, similar things with budhist teachings found in advaita texts

Post by auto »

Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:11 pm Only because a text states that having a specific meditative experience means having ended rebirth, it doesn't have to be so.
i hope you apply same thing to suttas too.
Meggo wrote: Fri Sep 09, 2022 10:11 pm Also i described previously why it can't be, namely because the state of Atman-Brahman is impermanent, it is a conditioned experience, therefore dukkha. No conditioned experience can be the end of rebirth. And yes, according to buddhism the experience is empty.
cool that you claim atman-brahman is impermeant. texts say something else.
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