A brief history of Buddhist internet forums

[tharpa]

I was reflecting on the great booming success that Dhamma Wheel is. Many monks and laypeople interested in the Theravada are here, and they interact casually, discussing various Buddhist matters with great precision. Some of them are extremely knowledgeable. There are few to no Meists here. (A Meist is someone who posts on a Buddhist forum but who knows nothing about Buddhism and has no interest in learning what the Buddha taught. They reason that they are already enlightened, so their current views must be those of the Buddha.)

Buddhism on the Internet was not always like this. I thought it would be good to give a brief history of Buddhist discussion on the Internet from one perspective before it is lost to posterity. I make no pretense of completeness. Others who have been around for a long time can fill in gaps.

Long before Dhamma Wheel, before even Google Groups, before the World Wide Web, before even Usenet, there was BBS, an internet Bulletin Board System. And there was a Buddhist group on there, which I knew through Bernie Simon of Vajradhatu. Apparently there were some good discussions there, such as the possibility of a Buddhist calendar, and the overlap of compassion to animals and Buddhism. The conclusion at that time on the calendar was that a universal Buddhist calendar was impossible, as there are various schools each with their own calendar.

In the 1990’s, there was Usenet. Usenet was a pretty active forum protocol. Unfortunately, however, the Theravadan Buddhist group was somewhat disappointing. There was alt.religion.buddhism.theravada. There was so much cross-posting from the other Buddhist groups that the signal to noise ratio was low. Usenet clients were set up so that with a single-click, one could Reply All, thus perpetuating the problem. There were a lot of Meists. Plus, there was bona-fide spam as well. The user could set up filters, but as time went on the noise from spam increased and setting up filters was more and more of an effort.

There was a Buddhist Web Ring. The ringmaster had a site in the ring that was a Dharma Chat. The software worked pretty well, but the focused traffic was pretty low. A woman who had no interest in Buddhism for some reason decided to make the room her home, and in time she attracted other noise, so the room gradually became useless for Buddhadharma discussion.

Around the time that the alt.religion.buddhism.theravada group was becoming totally overrun, Google Groups began. Google Groups provided a web interface to Usenet, and allowed the creation of new groups that were not part of Usenet. I started the religion.buddhism.theravada group, hoping that it would grow into a replacement of the now useless alt.religion.buddhism.theravada. There were a couple of advantages of Google Groups over the Usenet group. First, there was no Reply All function, so it essentially eliminated cross-posting. Secondly, the group was moderated. There was a little bit of traffic in the early days, but I was hoping it would gradually grow in time.

Not long after it began, the late Ven. Samahita, Bhikkhu made his appearance. Though he could not cross-post in the Usenet sense, he cc’d the full text of his daily blog posts to dozens of groups on various forums across the internet. His posts were on-topic for religion.buddhism.theravada, but they were off-topic for most of the groups he sent them to. And then for some reason he created half a dozen other Theravadin Google groups, even though he was the most frequent poster to religion.buddhism.theravada.

It may be difficult to imagine nowadays, but back then, faithful laypeople were intimidated by the presence of monks, even on the internet. So it effectively quelled any discussion. Some of the times after his arrival that laypeople would post, he would respond in a critical fashion.

Secondly, the effect of creating all these empty Theravadin groups was to dissipate any possibility of discussion. If someone was interested, they would see all of the empty groups and then leave.

After a couple of years of this, I decided to turn religion.buddhism.theravada over to him. I informed him of this by email, but he did not respond. So the net effect was that religion.buddhism.theravada was left without an active admin, and had no possibility of regaining one. A few of the people who were already members continued to post occasionally, but it eventually died off.

There was a fledgling group or two on Yahoo that continued. And then many years later other, more successful platforms began, until today we have wonderful giants like Dhamma Wheel. May it continue to grow fruitfully.

[User13866]

Thanks for sharing. I've been around since late 2015 and things have changed a lot, for the better i think. I've also been researching this early history complete with conspiracy theories a little, it's quite interesting.

[DNS]

...

Good outline of the history.

Another big part of that history was e-sangha (2003-2009)

DWT & DWM actually started during the last days of e-sangha.

e-sangha was great, nice format, except for the ads and was pan-buddhist, hosting all traditions and that is where some of the problems started with sectarian fights.

[tharpa]

e-sangha was great, nice format, except for the ads and was pan-buddhist, hosting all traditions and that is where some of the problems started with sectarian fights.

It took me a while to realize that Theravada and Mahayana are more like different religions than different schools in the same religion. Expecting them to have good discussions is like expecting Jews and Christians to have good religious discussions because they share most of the books of the Old Testament. Putting them on different domains seems like it was a good solution.

[SarathW]

My first exposure to internet Budddhist discussion was from the forum conducted by Ven. Yutthadhamma in 2010.
I am not sure whether it still exists.
I was banned from the group because I questioned Ven Yutthadhammo.

Then I found the Dhamma Wheel (2012). Those days Dhamma Wheel is not like today I felt it was more authoritarian.
Thankfully I was not banned except for two weeks. (even it was removed later)

Sometime after I joined stack exchange. I like the format that it was questions and answers only.
But no color just black and white. I lost the password.

I browse Reddit but did not like the format.

Then I joined Sutta Central. (2016?) I was banned as I questioned Bhante Sujato and other members.



By the way, I was following Buddhism only for the last 15 years.

[SDC]

Thankfully I was not banned except for two weeks. (even it was removed later)

I still can’t believe you were suspended. The previous administration did not like all your questions.

[DNS]

It took me a while to realize that Theravada and Mahayana are more like different religions than different schools in the same religion. Expecting them to have good discussions is like expecting Jews and Christians to have good religious discussions because they share most of the books of the Old Testament. Putting them on different domains seems like it was a good solution.

Yes, I agree. Mahayana has some Hindu-like elements in it (deity-yoga, bodhisattvas, tantra) and Theravada has some Jain-like elements in it (sramana path, asceticism) so are very different in many ways.

Even Theravada is getting somewhat fragmented (Thai forest, secular buddhism, vipassana, Modern Theravada / EBT, Classical, etc).

I guess DW(T) has become sort of a "pan-theravada" forum.

Sutta Central for specifically EBT.
Classical Theravada for specifically Classical. https://classicaltheravada.org/

I'm a member of Sutta Central D&D and Classical Theravada, as I like both of these major forms of Theravada.

[tharpa]

Sutta Central for specifically EBT.
Classical Theravada for specifically Classical. https://classicaltheravada.org/

I'm a member of Sutta Central D&D and Classical Theravada, as I like both of these major forms of Theravada.

If you get the chance, kindly tell Ven. Sujato that requiring registrants to state that they have not only read, but understood his long summary of his personal Buddhist philosophy is a barrier to those who take the Fourth Precept seriously. And at least put his name on the page, so people will know whose philosophy it is.

[DNS]

If you get the chance, kindly tell Ven. Sujato that requiring registrants to state that they have not only read, but understood his long summary of his personal Buddhist philosophy is a barrier to those who take the Fourth Precept seriously. And at least put his name on the page, so people will know whose philosophy it is.

No thanks, I won't be doing that. Bhante Sujato is an esteemed member of the ordained Sangha and it's his site to run as he sees fit. Each of the 3 major theravada forums serves a different role and membership is voluntary, not a requirement on anyone.

SuttaCentral = EBT
ClassicalTheravada = Classical
DW(T) = pan-theravada

[SarathW]

Sutta Central for specifically EBT.
Classical Theravada for specifically Classical. https://classicaltheravada.org/

I'm a member of Sutta Central D&D and Classical Theravada, as I like both of these major forms of Theravada.

If you get the chance, kindly tell Ven. Sujato that requiring registrants to state that they have not only read, but understood his long summary of his personal Buddhist philosophy is a barrier to those who take the Fourth Precept seriously. And at least put his name on the page, so people will know whose philosophy it is.

You put up or shut up!

[tharpa]

If you get the chance, kindly tell Ven. Sujato that requiring registrants to state that they have not only read, but understood his long summary of his personal Buddhist philosophy is a barrier to those who take the Fourth Precept seriously. And at least put his name on the page, so people will know whose philosophy it is.

No thanks, I won't be doing that. Bhante Sujato is an esteemed member of the ordained Sangha and it's his site to run as he sees fit. Each of the 3 major theravada forums serves a different role and membership is voluntary, not a requirement on anyone.

I fully understand that it is his site to run as he sees fit. Not sure why you thought I didn't. I only asked that you pass on fully accurate information. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is not deliberately excluding people who practice the Buddha's precepts.

Because a person who would deliberately exclude people who practice the precepts from a Buddhist forum is not worthy of much esteem. So it is an insult to him to think that he could not handle the information. So I apparently respect him more than you do.

[DNS]

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is not deliberately excluding people who practice the Buddha's precepts.

How is he excluding people who practice the Buddha's precepts?

[Eko Care]

SuttaCentral = EBT
ClassicalTheravada = Classical
DW(T) = pan-theravada

I would add more details:

SuttaCentral = EBT + Liberal Feminism
ClassicalTheravada = Classical
DW(T) = Pan theravada + Pan buddhism + Non rebirth

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ceisiwr]

SuttaCentral = EBT
ClassicalTheravada = Classical
DW(T) = pan-theravada

I would add more:

SuttaCentral = EBT + Feminism
ClassicalTheravada = Classical
DW(T) = Pan theravada + Pan buddhism + Non rebirth

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You don’t get many secular Buddhists on here these days, nor much acceptance of the Bodhisattva path.

[DNS]

I would add more details:

SuttaCentral = EBT + Liberal Feminism
ClassicalTheravada = Classical
DW(T) = Pan theravada + Pan buddhism + Non rebirth

Correct me if I'm wrong.

DW(T):
Some don't accept rebirth or are skeptical of it or set it aside for now. Others, like me, accept rebirth teachings.