Buddha save me from new-agers.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:08 pmHe throws Christian Theism into the blender too.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:42 amNibbana is about cessation, not about eternal life.auto wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:58 pm
interrupting this convo for a sec, i might see it wrongly, but it truly seem like it that,
Ceiswir you are getting lost from the first line what user Cause and effect posted and just carrying on with your usual narrative.
What said to you is:
You think nibbana is annihilation. Therefore you are an annihilationist.
Again, you are muddling up Buddhist and Hindu teachings, and missing the point.
'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:14 pmBuddha save me from new-agers.Ceisiwr wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 12:08 pmHe throws Christian Theism into the blender too.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:42 am
Nibbana is about cessation, not about eternal life.
Again, you are muddling up Buddhist and Hindu teachings, and missing the point.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
Nibbana is final cessation of dhamma what originates from desire(chanda). I said it before with a Sutta quote, and will do it again,Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:42 am Nibbana is about cessation, not about eternal life.
Again, you are muddling up Buddhist and Hindu teachings, and missing the point.
When you are saying sabbe dhamma anatta, you think it is refuting atman. That's the only context you have..https://suttacentral.net/an10.58/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:‘Reverends, all things are rooted in desire... And extinguishment is their final end.’
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
Nibbana is the cessation of craving, aversion and ignorance. It's not Atman.auto wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:58 pmNibbana is final cessation of dhamma what originates from desire(chanda). I said it before with a Sutta quote, and will do it again,Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:42 am Nibbana is about cessation, not about eternal life.
Again, you are muddling up Buddhist and Hindu teachings, and missing the point.When you are saying sabbe dhamma anatta, you think it is refuting atman. That's the only context you have..https://suttacentral.net/an10.58/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:‘Reverends, all things are rooted in desire... And extinguishment is their final end.’
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
why it would be atman? why do you suggest that option at all?Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:12 pmNibbana is the cessation of craving, aversion and ignorance. It's not Atman.auto wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:58 pmNibbana is final cessation of dhamma what originates from desire(chanda). I said it before with a Sutta quote, and will do it again,Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:42 am Nibbana is about cessation, not about eternal life.
Again, you are muddling up Buddhist and Hindu teachings, and missing the point.When you are saying sabbe dhamma anatta, you think it is refuting atman. That's the only context you have..https://suttacentral.net/an10.58/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote:‘Reverends, all things are rooted in desire... And extinguishment is their final end.’
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
It is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nibbæna, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
You seem attached to an eternalist view.cappuccino wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:41 pmIt is the Unformed, the Unconditioned, the End,
the Truth, the Other Shore, the Subtle,
the Everlasting, the Invisible, the Undiversified,
Peace, the Deathless, the Blest, Safety,
the Wonderful, the Marvellous,
Nibbæna, Purity, Freedom,
the Island,
the Refuge, the Beyond.
~ S 43.1-44
What Pali term is translated as "everlasting" in the quote above?
Buddha save me from new-agers!
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
Eternalism is not about eternity
It’s about a self that stays the same in each incarnation
No I do not have this view
Last edited by cappuccino on Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
You have just claimed that Nibbana equals Brahman. But Atman equals Brahman, so you're also saying that Nibbana equals Atman.auto wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:19 pmwhy it would be atman? why do you suggest that option at all?Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:12 pmNibbana is the cessation of craving, aversion and ignorance. It's not Atman.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
So what view do you have, exactly?cappuccino wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:48 pmEternalism is not about eternity
It’s about a self that stays the same in each incarnation
No I do not have this view
Please explain it clearly.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
where did i said that? i think i said attaining brahman.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:49 pmYou have just claimed that Nibbana equals Brahman. But Atman equals Brahman, so you're also saying that Nibbana equals Atman.auto wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:19 pmwhy it would be atman? why do you suggest that option at all?Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:12 pm
Nibbana is the cessation of craving, aversion and ignorance. It's not Atman.
..
with that you reminded me a serious matter. you actually need attain soul so yes you don't have one if you haven't attained it yet.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
The Discourse on the Not-self CharacteristicSpiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:52 pm So what view do you have, exactly?
Please explain it clearly.
"Now, what is impermanent, unsatisfactory, subject to change, is it proper to regard it as: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?"
"Indeed, not that, O Lord."
"Therefore, surely, O monks, whatever form, past, future or present, internal or external, coarse or fine, low or lofty, far or near, all that form must be regarded with proper wisdom, according to reality, thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.'
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
pretty sure naysayers will not going to say: "oh i were wrong, i am now going to practice realize immediate presence?" etc.
-
- Posts: 10172
- Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
- Location: Andromeda looks nice
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
Please answer my question in a straightforward way.cappuccino wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:55 pmThe Discourse on the Not-self CharacteristicSpiny Norman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:52 pm So what view do you have, exactly?
Please explain it clearly.
"Now, what is impermanent, unsatisfactory, subject to change, is it proper to regard it as: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?"
"Indeed, not that, O Lord."
"Therefore, surely, O monks, whatever form, past, future or present, internal or external, coarse or fine, low or lofty, far or near, all that form must be regarded with proper wisdom, according to reality, thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.'
Buddha save me from new-agers!
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: 'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?
Not Self … Not No Self