That is annihilationism
I asked if you are trying to achieve nirvana
You won’t try to achieve annihilation
That is annihilationism
I do not think he understands yet
Brahmins, Vedāntists, Jains, Mahāyānists, Christians, and others have been saying what you've been saying for hundred and hundreds of years. Even the Bön shamans of Tibet think that Buddhism is nihilism and that it advocates annihilation, and they are interfacing with one of the most blatantly eternalistic Buddhisms on this earth. You are no different from them in this regard.
Why do I quote the Ananda sutta?
A wife once called her husband in a frenzy:cappuccino wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 11:17 pmWhy do I quote the Ananda sutta?
Answer: Because no one has understood it
If only Vocchagotta had different questions. Both of those questions come from wrong views.
There are passges in the Pali Canon, pointed out to you many times, that imply some form of both. Not everything is spelled out.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:40 pmThey don't say that "citta is forever" and they don't say "there is a universal proto-conscious (or karmic) field."Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:31 pmIm not asking for your personal view, I'm asking for what you think the nikayas say about nibbana since that is the topic.
No, they say it is cessation of that which has arisen. Simple.
Indeed. And that which has never arisen will never cease. This is nibbana.
What a good boy you are. Your position "blind unquestionable obediance is the path" is not what written in the canon. Neither will highlighting judicous and meditative use of psychedelics make up for your rampant past recreational drug binges and hedonism. They are not the same.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:40 pmI'm here to discuss Theravāda, the EBTs, and Śrāvaka Buddhism in general. You're here to discuss the unconditioned citta, to advocate breaking the precepts in order to attain chemically-induced samādhis, and insult Theravāda. Reconsider who would be wise to leave and who doesn't understand what "Theravāda" actually is.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:31 pmA typically petulant response from you.
And to clarify, yes this is a thread on Theravada. Not 'what I think is orthodox Theravada only'.
Sure, that's fine. What arose will cease: citta, manas, vijñāna, this body derived of four elements, etc. That's what it says.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 amThere are passges in the Pali Canon, pointed out to you many times, that imply some form of both. Not everything is spelled out.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 10:40 pmThey don't say that "citta is forever" and they don't say "there is a universal proto-conscious (or karmic) field."Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:31 pm
Im not asking for your personal view, I'm asking for what you think the nikayas say about nibbana since that is the topic.No, they say it is cessation of that which has arisen. Simple.
Be specific.
You are invited to stop making up lies about me. Thank you. I don't have a blind adherence to what is written in the Canon. That is something you've literally made up in your head in order to characterize me in a way you feel that I ought to be characterized: a doctrinaire intellectualizer. We're seeing quite the pattern with you.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 amWhat a good boy you are. Your position "blind unquestionable obediance is the path" is not what written in the canon. Neither will highlighting judicous and meditative use of psychedelics make up for your rampant past recreational drug binges and hedonism. They are not the same.
All of which are separate from consciousness without sensory impingement, luminous, free from adventitious defilement, limitless, radiant, uncreated and deathless. All of which the Canon also describes as what remains with cessation of the asavas and laying down of the aggregates.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:13 pmSure, that's fine. What arose will cease: citta, manas, vijñāna, this body derived of four elements, etc. That's what it says.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 amThere are passges in the Pali Canon, pointed out to you many times, that imply some form of both. Not everything is spelled out.No, they say it is cessation of that which has arisen. Simple.
Be specific.
You are quite the drama queen aren't you. Ok you're not an intellectual dogmatic, you just only like to see discussion of 'endorsed orthodox Thervada opinions', even though apparently you believe something else entirely yourself.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:13 pmI don't have a blind adherence to what is written in the Canon. That is something you've literally made up in your head in order to characterize me in a way you feel that I ought to be characterized: a doctrinaire intellectualizer. We're seeing quite the pattern with you.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 amWhat a good boy you are. Your position "blind unquestionable obediance is the path" is not what written in the canon.
Sure bud. It's not 'rampant hedonistic drug binging' then.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:13 pmYour second lie concerned this drugged-up past of "rampant binges" that you imagine I had....I once admitted to you that I used to smoke far too much weed, copious amounts of weed, pretty much every day in university. I also experimented with psychedelic drugs....Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 am Neither will highlighting judicous and meditative use of psychedelics make up for your rampant past recreational drug binges and hedonism. They are not the same.
Smoking weed every morning and trying large doses of psychedelics on the long weekend, that's a little bit different from "rampant binges."
If you had noticed, I have not raised or mentioned them at all here. Only yourself and ceisiwr had raised the issue at all in an attempt to discredit what I was saying and I thus had to respond.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:13 pm
You've a deluded insistence that hard psychedelic substances have the possibility to aid in the achievement of the samādhis of the Āriyas, and that they can be a valuable tool for the meditator. Your want to defend and advocate for this foolishness leads you to attack me and others who identify the foolishness for what it is. It's very transparent. Because we don't agree with you concerning the value of psychedelics on the Buddhist path, we all must be binges-users, henodists, and other varieties of degenerates. If only we had used these "tools" dispassionately for the purposes of dhyānic psychonaut exploration.
Questions are fine
you mean this,Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:59 pm Since Nibbana is identityless infinite eternal 'consciousness' or 'protoconsciousness' that has been liberated from the rebecoming process of taking up of materiality and mentality in any of the realms, it is Eternal yet cannot be described as 'eternalism'.
People overcomplicate things. It is clear that the Buddha's teachings are describing this, and that it is separate from transitory sensory consciousness which rises and falls with the sense bases. It is liberated and transformed in Nibbana.
It is the fundamental consciousness element which is part of the very fabric of reality itself and which we are all participating in and part of, which is liberated from rebecoming in any identity and thus our particular 'locus' is freed and becomes of the Nibbana element.
running parisuddhena manoviññāṇena in search,https://suttacentral.net/mn43/en/sujato?layout=sidebyside&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin wrote: “What can be known by purified mind consciousness released from the five senses?”
“Nissaṭṭhena hāvuso, pañcahi indriyehi parisuddhena manoviññāṇena kiṁ neyyan”ti?
I would say you are on point. Not sure if it is nibbana(no exact word) but it is something to latch onto like a leech as the milindapanha text says.https://suttacentral.net/mil7.6.8/en/tw_rhysdavids?reference=none&highlight=false wrote:For it was said, O king, by Anuruddha, the Elder:
“With heart made pure, in meditation firm,
Drink deep of freedom’s never-failing draught.”’
Bhāsitampetaṁ, mahārāja, therena anuruddhena—
‘Parisuddhena cittena,
Ārammaṇe patiṭṭhāya;
Tena cittena pātabbaṁ,
Vimuttirasamasecanan’”ti.
Ceiswir you are rejecting the ambrosia of emancipation.
Sorry, I don't follow?auto wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:31 pmCeiswir you are rejecting the ambrosia of emancipation.
Look up the previous post: viewtopic.php?p=696855#p696855
You've invented the supposed suttic disclosure, by way of it allegedly being a necessary underlying metaphysic, of the existence of a "proto-conscious (or karmic) field." You've also made up the supposed suttic disclosure of the principle that there are many births per particular bhava in another older thread. I never said you invented eternalism. Stick to what I say, not to what you imagine I say. Then, you will have a better time addressing what I say.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:12 pmAll of which are separate from consciousness without sensory impingement, luminous, free from adventitious defilement, limitless, radiant, uncreated and deathless. All of which the Canon also describes as what remains with cessation of the asavas and laying down of the aggregates.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:13 pmSure, that's fine. What arose will cease: citta, manas, vijñāna, this body derived of four elements, etc. That's what it says.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 am There are passges in the Pali Canon, pointed out to you many times, that imply some form of both. Not everything is spelled out.
No, they say it is cessation of that which has arisen. Simple.
Be specific.
So you can stop trying to characterize me as some kind of 'eternalist' who has made up a view, a view that many prominent people including monastics hold to in this tradition, even if not the mainstream.
Yeah, I like this forum to be on-topic, and also not to be proliferated with incompetent slanders of the tradition the forum is dedicated to.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 amYou are quite the drama queen aren't you. Ok you're not an intellectual dogmatic, you just only like to see discussion of 'endorsed orthodox Thervada opinions', even though apparently you believe something else entirely yourself.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:13 pmI don't have a blind adherence to what is written in the Canon. That is something you've literally made up in your head in order to characterize me in a way you feel that I ought to be characterized: a doctrinaire intellectualizer. We're seeing quite the pattern with you.Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 amWhat a good boy you are. Your position "blind unquestionable obediance is the path" is not what written in the canon.
Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 amSure bud. It's not 'rampant hedonistic drug binging' then.Coëmgenu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:13 pmYour second lie concerned this drugged-up past of "rampant binges" that you imagine I had....I once admitted to you that I used to smoke far too much weed, copious amounts of weed, pretty much every day in university. I also experimented with psychedelic drugs....Cause_and_Effect wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 4:59 am Neither will highlighting judicous and meditative use of psychedelics make up for your rampant past recreational drug binges and hedonism. They are not the same.
Smoking weed every morning and trying large doses of psychedelics on the long weekend, that's a little bit different from "rampant binges."
You do whatever you need to do and tell yourself to make your self feel fine.