'Consciousness without Surface': Not Eternalism?

[cappuccino]

I feel we could do this dance for an eternity.

Your no self view is because you want to transcend self

[Tl21G3lVl]

“Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view. And what is wrong view? 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no contemplatives or brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is wrong view.

"And what is right view? Right view, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions [of becoming]; there is right view that is noble, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

It’s neither eternalism nor nihilism since per the sutta they are both wrong views.

[Ceisiwr]

“Of those, right view is the forerunner. And how is right view the forerunner? One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view. And what is wrong view? 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no contemplatives or brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is wrong view.

"And what is right view? Right view, I tell you, is of two sorts: There is right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions [of becoming]; there is right view that is noble, without effluents, transcendent, a factor of the path.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

It’s neither eternalism nor nihilism since per the sutta they are both wrong views.

No one in this thread has proposed nihilism. Eternalism on the other hand ...

[Tl21G3lVl]

No one in this thread has proposed nihilism. Eternalism on the other hand ...

I think that sutta covers eternalism too, but I could be wrong.

[cappuccino]

No one in this thread has proposed nihilism. Eternalism on the other hand ...

You do not know what eternalism is


Nor do you know what annihilationism is


It would help if you did…

[Cause_and_Effect]

"Bhikkhus, there are these three
characteristics that define the
unconditioned. What three? No arising is
seen, no vanishing is seen, and no
alteration while it persists is seen. These
are the three characteristics that define the
unconditioned."

It’s that there is no persisting thing which alters, rather than there being a persisting thing which never alters. In the parallel version it is said to be empty of arising, ceasing, persisting and change.

We go by what's in the Pali canon. It's qualities are it has never arisen, it will never cease and it persists.
This fits with synonyms of Nibbana as the unperishing, the permanent etc.

It's also fits with the description of Nibbana as the supreme dhamma.

No matter how much you try, your wrong view of nihilism of all experience in nibbana wont hold up.

Nibbana is, and and Nibbana is real

The supreme dhamma is not the cessation of all dhammas. That's nonsensical and a misreading of the suttas.

[cappuccino]

Briefly, eternalism is the idea you are unchanging


Annihilationism is the idea you will not exist

[Ceisiwr]

It’s that there is no persisting thing which alters, rather than there being a persisting thing which never alters. In the parallel version it is said to be empty of arising, ceasing, persisting and change.

We go by what's in the Pali canon. It's qualities are it has never arisen, it will never cease and it persists.
This fits with synonyms of Nibbana as the unperishing, the permanent etc.

It's also fits with the description of Nibbana as the supreme dhamma.

No matter how much you try, your wrong view of nihilism of all experience in nibbana wont hold up.

Nibbana is, and and Nibbana is real

The supreme dhamma is not the cessation of all dhammas. That's nonsensical and a misreading of the suttas.

"Sarvāstivāda-Vaibhāṣika were nihilists"

Conditioned phenomena arise, persist for a time and undergo change (change whilst persisting) and then cease. Nibbāna is the opposite of conditioned dhammas. With nibbāna then there is no arising, no persisting for a time and then changing (no change whilst persisting) and no ceasing. That's the Theravādin framing of it. The parallel version says the same thing, just without the ambiguity in "no change whilst persisting". If something does not arise it cannot change whilst persisting, because it was never "born". Never being born, there is no persisting or change (ageing) nor death (ceasing).

You still haven't given us the sutta definition of nihilism. So far, you seem to be using it in an idiosyncratic way.

[cappuccino]

[Microdose]

Viññanam anidassanam

Consciousness without surface

I have experiences of this, where I feel free, my mind is not landing on thoughts

There is expansion

Words can’t fully describe this

It is whole and complete , nothing is lacking, it was and is the most natural experience

Mind is quite tricky so it comes back and covers it just as a cloud covers the sun

But once experienced one always knows that the sun is behind the clouds even if it’s a cloudy day

It’s unmistakable clarity and brings it’s own authority

[Ceisiwr]

Viññanam anidassanam

Consciousness without surface

I have experiences of this, where I feel free, my mind is not landing on thoughts

There is expansion

Words can’t fully describe this

It is whole and complete , nothing is lacking, it was and is the most natural experience

Mind is quite tricky so it comes back and covers it just as a cloud covers the sun

But once experienced one always knows that the sun is behind the clouds even if it’s a cloudy day

It’s unmistakable clarity and brings it’s own authority

Whilst it must have been a wonderful experience, it's just another natural phenomenon to let go of. I wouldn't get stuck on the mind, or conciousness.

[cappuccino]

Whilst it must have been a wonderful experience, it's just another natural phenomenon to let go of.

Nirvana is not let go of


May come and go but eventually it stays

[Ceisiwr]

Whilst it must have been a wonderful experience, it's just another natural phenomenon to let go of.

Nirvana is not let go of

Smells like an oxymoron.

[cappuccino]

Smells like an oxymoron.

Smells like teen spirit

[Cause_and_Effect]

Viññanam anidassanam

Consciousness without surface

I have experiences of this, where I feel free, my mind is not landing on thoughts

There is expansion

Words can’t fully describe this

It is whole and complete , nothing is lacking, it was and is the most natural experience

Mind is quite tricky so it comes back and covers it just as a cloud covers the sun

But once experienced one always knows that the sun is behind the clouds even if it’s a cloudy day

It’s unmistakable clarity and brings it’s own authority

Yes, you know.
Explaining it to people who don't is difficult and they will try to find rationalisms to support their false notions.

Whilst it must have been a wonderful experience, it's just another natural phenomenon to let go of. I wouldn't get stuck on the mind, or conciousness.

You don't know what the 'mind' and 'consciousness' are. You are stuck on mere concepts.
As he described, the awareness doesn't go away. It can't go away because it is reality itself.