Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Alrac
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Alrac »

analysis wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:28 pm What Eko Care has said is correct according to the Classical texts.
What is a "Classical" text? What does the word "Classical" mean?
representing an exemplary standard within a traditional and long-established form or style. "classical ballet"
How can what is contrary to the Buddha's Teaching be "exemplary"? :shrug:
bpallister
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by bpallister »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:12 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:11 pm Cappuccino, mighty defender of unicorns!
I’m against their presence
i'm riding on the back of a unicorn right now. :hello:
denise
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by denise »

man riding a unicorn looking for a unicorn.... :tongue:
pegembara
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by pegembara »

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The empires like Roman, Mongol, Japanese, Third Reich etc are concepts, are they not?
Like Constantinople, Alexandria, Sparta.
How about Kodak, Enron, Polaroid, LTCM, Arthur Andersen?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Ceisiwr »

Unicorns everywhere!
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
asahi
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by asahi »

Why do we needs to talk about concepts if it is non existence as though it has to do with the practice .
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Eko Care
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Eko Care »

pegembara wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:50 am
"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence. But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Herein, "existence (atthi)" means permanent-existence which is eternality (sassata).
"non-existence (natthi)" means non-existence which is annihilation (uccheda).

Middle-path of the Buddha is described as "stream of dependently-arisen momentary-existent dhammas".
pegembara wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:50 am The empires like Roman, Mongol, Japanese, Third Reich etc are concepts, are they not?
Like Constantinople, Alexandria, Sparta.
How about Kodak, Enron, Polaroid, LTCM, Arthur Andersen?
If they were real, then they are concepts of real, as explained by analysis.
If they were not real, then they are concepts of non-real.
asahi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:51 am Why do we needs to talk about concepts if it is non existence as though it has to do with the practice .
They are objects of the mind. So they are included in Dhamma-arammana.
All the dhammas are contemplated as Anatta. (Sabbe dhamma anatta)
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by asahi »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:42 am
If they were real, then they are concepts of real, as explained by analysis.
If they were not real, then they are concepts of non-real.


They are objects of the mind. So they are included in Dhamma-arammana.
All the dhammas are contemplated as Anatta. (Sabbe dhamma anatta)
And how does one suppose to contemplate non real concept !
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Eko Care
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Eko Care »

asahi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:07 am And how does one suppose to contemplate non real concept !
Though it non-real, mind perceives it.
Concepts are objects of mind.
So we can consider them as Anatta.

When we continue analyzing the realities, the concepts become disappeared.
(We will not be able to find the concepts)
asahi
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by asahi »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:25 am
asahi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:07 am And how does one suppose to contemplate non real concept !
Though it non-real, mind perceives it.
Concepts are objects of mind.
So we can consider them as Anatta.

When we continue analyzing the realities, the concepts become disappeared.
(We will not be able to find the concepts)
Is it necessary to acknowledge it as non real concept , why not just concept . When we speaks of Turtle hairs we already know it doesnt exists but a kind of made up idea , so to contemplate it as non real idea appear pointless .
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Spiny Norman »

asahi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:51 am Why do we needs to talk about concepts if it is non existence as though it has to do with the practice .
Good question. I'm not seeing the practical use of the technical distinction being made in this thread.
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Spiny Norman »

Eko Care wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:25 am
Though it non-real, mind perceives it.
Concepts are objects of mind.
So we can consider them as Anatta.
Aren't all mind objects characterised by the three marks?
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Eko Care
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Eko Care »

Spiny Norman wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:02 am Aren't all mind objects characterised by the three marks?
No.
All mind objects are characterized by Anatta only.
That is what has been discussed here in earlier in this thread.

If you could, please refer Parivarapali/Abhidhamma/Atthakata/Visuddhimagga.
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by justindesilva »

Spiny Norman wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:59 am
asahi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:51 am Why do we needs to talk about concepts if it is non existence as though it has to do with the practice .
Good question. I'm not seeing the practical use of the technical distinction being made in this thread.
From what we see concepts are illysionised or virtual objects. For cakkuvignana one sees colours and the seer forms a form or a figure stored in the mind, That is when the person who has the eye is hoodwinked say like by a magician . Only one with a knowledge that a magician is the presenter can realise the illusion. See madupindupama sutta. We then only see a mirage instead of the real object . Further we form geometrical figures from colours sent from an object. Mano vingnana plays a big role here like in a dream. Only by getting awake we realise that perhaps the fear caused in a dream is not mine. feeling of Me and mine fooling .
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Eko Care
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Re: Concepts don't exist and therefore cannot be Anicca or Dukkha.

Post by Eko Care »

Spiny Norman wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:59 am
asahi wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:51 am Why do we needs to talk about concepts if it is non existence as though it has to do with the practice .
Good question. I'm not seeing the practical use of the technical distinction being made in this thread.

Practical benefit is identifying the "Person/Self" as non-real but a concept.
Otherwise how to eliminate Sakkayaditthi?

That is the main theme in Theravada.
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