Do animals have the notion of I, me, and myself?

[thepea]

Animals do not have awareness of awareness and few humans have this.
Most Humans have the capacity for this but few experience this.

Pure awareness is very positive

Is it?

[cappuccino]

Pure awareness is very positive

Is it?

Advaita … not Buddhist …

[Spiny Norman]

Does a fish have self awareness?

They have awareness

But awareness of self, like we do?
Or awareness of environment like food/other fish?

I think fish are only aware of their environment, whereas higher mammals develop an awareness of themselves too.
And I assume there is a close relationship between awareness and intelligence.

[Bundokji]

Some evolutionary theorists as well as religious minded people (creationists) link the moral accountability of humans to the upright posture while walking. Even in the everyday language, the term upright is associated with proper conduct. I am not sure if this unique posture translates into more exposure in proportion to its size.

[thepea]

They have awareness

But awareness of self, like we do?
Or awareness of environment like food/other fish?

I think fish are only aware of their environment, whereas higher mammals develop an awareness of themselves too.
And I assume there is a close relationship between awareness and intelligence.

I agree with this based on my interactions and observations with animals.
I really don’t see fish as fearing for their life. Especially with the fighting up river to spawn. Majority die after this.
Self sacrifice seems an overreach but muscle memory and instinct/following the school.
Chickens seem to have little self awareness.
With pigs they too are instinct based behaviour but I have witnessed one of our pigs sharing things with others. And they both show signs of genuine happiness at times.

[justindesilva]

But awareness of self, like we do?
Or awareness of environment like food/other fish?

I think fish are only aware of their environment, whereas higher mammals develop an awareness of themselves too.
And I assume there is a close relationship between awareness and intelligence.

I agree with this based on my interactions and observations with animals.
I really don’t see fish as fearing for their life. Especially with the fighting up river to spawn. Majority die after this.
Self sacrifice seems an overreach but muscle memory and instinct/following the school.
Chickens seem to have little self awareness.
With pigs they too are instinct based behaviour but I have witnessed one of our pigs sharing things with others. And they both show signs of genuine happiness at times.

It was noticed that days before a tsunami animals and serpents move inland to safer places . This is by sensing the danger for existence. At the same time I had noticed that when oxen are taken to be killed they behave in a sad manner with tears in their eyes. Birds every year fly seasonally to the same destinations. How can we explain these.

[Spiny Norman]

I think fish are only aware of their environment, whereas higher mammals develop an awareness of themselves too.
And I assume there is a close relationship between awareness and intelligence.

I agree with this based on my interactions and observations with animals.
I really don’t see fish as fearing for their life. Especially with the fighting up river to spawn. Majority die after this.
Self sacrifice seems an overreach but muscle memory and instinct/following the school.
Chickens seem to have little self awareness.
With pigs they too are instinct based behaviour but I have witnessed one of our pigs sharing things with others. And they both show signs of genuine happiness at times.

It was noticed that days before a tsunami animals and serpents move inland to safer places . This is by sensing the danger for existence. At the same time I had noticed that when oxen are taken to be killed they behave in a sad manner with tears in their eyes. Birds every year fly seasonally to the same destinations. How can we explain these.

Millions of years of evolution is a possible explanation, but I agree that these creatures can do remarkable things.
I watch cormorants dive to catch fish in water with zero visibility, and marvel at their skill.

[thepea]

I think fish are only aware of their environment, whereas higher mammals develop an awareness of themselves too.
And I assume there is a close relationship between awareness and intelligence.

I agree with this based on my interactions and observations with animals.
I really don’t see fish as fearing for their life. Especially with the fighting up river to spawn. Majority die after this.
Self sacrifice seems an overreach but muscle memory and instinct/following the school.
Chickens seem to have little self awareness.
With pigs they too are instinct based behaviour but I have witnessed one of our pigs sharing things with others. And they both show signs of genuine happiness at times.

It was noticed that days before a tsunami animals and serpents move inland to safer places . This is by sensing the danger for existence. At the same time I had noticed that when oxen are taken to be killed they behave in a sad manner with tears in their eyes. Birds every year fly seasonally to the same destinations. How can we explain these.

I agree with spiney that it’s years and years of evolution, just like humans have evolved.
Animals are still far from a risk of destruction, but humans either must be steered towards an inner connection or run the risk of the herd destroying any who do not agree with their religion.

[cappuccino]

destroying any who do not agree with their religion.

when you don’t “agree with” this religion, it is your (great) loss

[Radix]

There are other tests scientists have been developing, including the use of other senses, including smell and hearing.

But why did it take the scientists so long to even considers this??

[User13866]

Venerable Malukyaputta was condemned by the Buddha, about taking Samyojanas not as Anusaya.
Otherwise babies also can be called as not having Sakkayaditthi.

I don't know how to recognize the animal's Sakkayaditthi as a pariyutthana, but they definiely have Sakkayaditthi Anusaya.
Samyojana (bonds) means latent kilesas.

Thanks.
Could you provide the Sutta reference for this story of Venerable Malukyaputta, please?

Dear SarathW,
Please see the below.

MN64 Mahāmālukyaputtasutta

“Mendicants, do you remember the five lower fetters that I taught?”

When he said this, Venerable Māluṅkyaputta said to him, “Sir, I remember them.”

“But how do you remember them?”

“I remember the lower fetters taught by the Buddha as follows: identity view, doubt, misapprehension of precepts and observances, sensual desire, and ill will. That’s how I remember the five lower fetters taught by the Buddha.”

“Who on earth do you remember being taught the five lower fetters in that way? Wouldn’t the wanderers who follow other paths fault you using the simile of the infant? For a little baby doesn’t even have a concept of ‘identity’, so how could identity view possibly arise in them? Yet the underlying tendency to identity view still lies within them.

And the commentary describes more about it.

This is how i would answer as well. Discursive thought is a matter of speech, a verbal formation.

A being can act & react without thinking nor language.

For example if a person is driving a car where suddenly a deer jumps out in front of the car from the forest, the driver will be slamming those breaks without any discursive thought, without thinking 'a deer has appeared, i should be stopping the car'. He acts on a tendency & prior conditioning.

I imagine animals are kind of like that, not thinking too much.