Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Sasha_A
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Re: Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

Post by Sasha_A »

No, terrible people are terrible because they choose to do terrible things.
Snp3.9:
You’re not a brahmin by birth,
nor by birth a non-brahmin.
You’re a brahmin by your deeds,
and by deeds a non-brahmin.

You’re a farmer by your deeds,
by deeds you’re a professional;
you’re a trader by your deeds,
by deeds are you an employee;

you’re a bandit by your deeds,
by deeds you’re a soldier;
you’re a sacrificer by your deeds,
by deeds you’re a ruler.

In this way the astute regard deeds
in accord with truth.
Seeing dependent origination,
they’re expert in deeds and their results.

Deeds make the world go on,
deeds make people go on;
sentient beings are bound by deeds,
like a moving chariot’s linchpin.

By austerity and spiritual practice,
by restraint and by self-control:
that’s how to become a brahmin,
this is the supreme brahmin.

Accomplished in the three knowledges,
peaceful, with rebirth ended,
know them, Vāseṭṭha,
as Brahmā and Sakka to the wise.”
It is merely dukkha that comes into being, dukkha that stands and disappears,
Nothing apart from dukkha comes into being, nothing other than dukkha ceases.
- SN5.10
SarathW
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Re: Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

Post by SarathW »

According to Angulimala Sutta, he was a great student and became a murderer due to circumstances of his teacher believing in the false accusations about Angulimala. But he became an Arahant after meeting Buddha. However, Buddha decided to meet him due to his past good Kamma.

So I would say that the terrible people are a result of five Niyama Dhammas.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

Post by Mahabrahma »

I have a belief that moral principles are entirely up to the individual, no matter how good or how bad they have it. Next, define moral principles.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
Pasindu
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Re: Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

Post by Pasindu »

Gami47 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:29 pm:namaste:
I think it would have a lot to do with having bad friends(paapamitta) and lack of good friends(kalyanamitta) and also one's lack of pragna.
The Buddha added: “Monks, if he had not put his father to death, he would have attained the Sotāpatti-Path while seated here as he heard this Sāmañña-phala Sutta. But now, on account of his association with his wicked friend, his potentiality to attain that Path has been injured.
https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book ... 64626.html

:namaste:
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cappuccino
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Re: Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

Post by cappuccino »

Mahabrahma wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:08 pm define moral principles.
The slightest of all the results coming from X is that, when one becomes a human being, it leads to …

Vipaka Sutta: Results

:candle:
pegembara
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Re: Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

Post by pegembara »

Did they choose to be born? That is the fundamental question.
If they were not born, they wouldn't be doing those deeds.
There would be no discussion of what is good or bad deeds.
The end of kamma.

So did they have a choice in the very first place? Did they choose to be ignorant?
“This being so, that is; from the arising of this, that arises, that is to say: because of ignorance there are volitional processes, because of volitional processes: consciousness, because of consciousness: mind and body, because of mind and body: the six sense spheres, because of the six sense spheres: contact, because of contact: feeling, because of feeling: craving, because of craving: attachment, because of attachment: continuation, because of continuation: birth, because of birth: old age, death, grief, lamentation, pain, sorrow, and despair all arise, and so there is an origination of this whole mass of suffering.”
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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justpractice
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Re: Do terrible people exist or is it due to circumstances according to Buddhist doctrine?

Post by justpractice »

Sasha_A wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:45 pm No, terrible people are terrible because they choose to do terrible things.
:goodpost: From AN 10.48:
“‘I am the owner of my actions (kamma), heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir’…
"Whoever avoids sensual desires
— as he would, with his foot,
the head of a snake —
goes beyond, mindful,
this attachment in the world." - Sn 4.1
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