Stream-entry is Million times harder than Jhana?

[Joe.c]

Actually, it's your problem. You are claiming that there can be constant Jhāna. According to the suttas when in Jhāna there is only pleasant feeling. Also according to the suttas you cannot experience two feelings at the same time, so if you are constantly in sukha you can never experience pain. The Buddha did experience pain though, so how was he in constant Jhāna?

Lol. Remind me about Nigantha on SN 41.8 and MN 125. O well.

Good luck.

[Ceisiwr]

Actually, it's your problem. You are claiming that there can be constant Jhāna. According to the suttas when in Jhāna there is only pleasant feeling. Also according to the suttas you cannot experience two feelings at the same time, so if you are constantly in sukha you can never experience pain. The Buddha did experience pain though, so how was he in constant Jhāna?

Lol. Remind me about Nigantha on SN 41.8 and MN 125. O well.

Good luck.

While a mendicant is meditating—diligent, keen, and resolute—the faculty of pain arises. They understand: ‘The faculty of pain has arisen in me. And that has a foundation, a source, a condition, and a reason. It’s not possible for the faculty of pain to arise without a foundation, a source, a condition, or a reason.’ They understand the faculty of pain, its origin, its cessation, and where that faculty of pain that’s arisen ceases without anything left over. And where does that faculty of pain that’s arisen cease without anything left over? It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. That’s where the faculty of pain that’s arisen ceases without anything left over. They’re called a mendicant who understands the cessation of the faculty of pain, and who applies their mind to that end. - SN 48.40

Pain cannot be experienced from the 1st Jhāna onwards so, according to your logic, the Buddha never again experienced pain. It is said, however, that he did experience pain. Your argument is flawed.

[Joe.c]

How can a fully awaken one take the body as his? You are mixing a mundane talk with supermundane view.

[Ceisiwr]

How can a fully awaken one take the body as his? You are mixing a mundane talk with supermundane view.

I never said he did. I said the Buddha experienced pain.

[Joe.c]

How can a fully awaken one take the body as his? You are mixing a mundane talk with supermundane view.

I never said he did. I said the Buddha experienced pain.

Now were you confused then? Because you say he experience body pain. But the body is not his? Then how can one ;who doesn't take the body as his; experience any body pain?

Hm... When one has detached/free from 6 senses, whatever that he/she experience doesn't matter any more. The mind & body (not his) will always be tranquil, upekkha, blissful, rapture, pure aka always in Jhana

O btw, jhana can be tested as I said. Just look up power of jhana in many sutta.

Easy way, bring a naked woman/man, see if one is reacting or not in term of the physical body and mind.

Or use psychic power to bring a big elephant/tiger to run over him/her (if one has iddhi). See if there is any slight reaction or not.

Then confirm the other factors such as wisdom, greed, hatred, etc

[asahi]

How can a fully awaken one take the body as his? You are mixing a mundane talk with supermundane view.

I never said he did. I said the Buddha experienced pain.

He has some odd view , no one can be 24/7 in jhana .

[Joe.c]

Lol.

It is not only me. Frank also said it that it is 24/7 lifestyle for jhana.

Like I said, if anyone lose the jhana (Samma Samadhi) before end of life. Then, there will be suffering in sensual world right here & now, and there is no guarantee one will become a non returner at the very least (unless one has become an arahant, even then they will maintain samadhi state).

Why do anyone who has samadhi want to go back to sensual world is just weird?

[auto]

But if someone say, there is no need samma samadhi to reach Nibbana. Then you as the student need to question the statement. Buddha always say Nibbana needs all factors of N8FP. Also, there is no stumbling upon when one is in Jhana.

Stream entry fruit is attained by virtue, because the concentration on rupa what has gati(course of existence) tied to it is not possible before that.
Pre-streamentry concentration is tied to the senses and is not proximity cause to the stream entry fruit but when stream entry fruit is attained he acquires the concentration-indriya(faculty).

[Joe.c]

But if someone say, there is no need samma samadhi to reach Nibbana. Then you as the student need to question the statement. Buddha always say Nibbana needs all factors of N8FP. Also, there is no stumbling upon when one is in Jhana.

Stream entry fruit is attained by virtue, because the concentration on rupa what has gati(course of existence) tied to it is not possible before that.
Pre-streamentry concentration is tied to the senses and is not proximity cause to the stream entry fruit but when stream entry fruit is attained he acquires the concentration-indriya(faculty).

I think you use commentaries to explain it. I suggest just drop the commentaries and use only Sutta to explain.

Don’t mix rebirth, kamma with Sutta teaching. Those will be taking care by itself when one keeps practicing N8FP and on the path. It is like side effect.

Stream enterer path acquired by hearing true dhamma from Ariya and associate with them. Then, one will align their life experience towards Nibbana / towards ariya experience. You might call this gati, although i haven’t seen it in Sutta.

The fruit will be obtained after wisdom is matured overtime (when faculties are matured - faith and sila). This means 4 factors of stream enterer can be found. Wisdom mature because of practice.

Depend on person, it maybe fast because the virtue has been observed in the past. But it could be long until end of current life. But by end of life, one will definitely get the fruit.

[auto]

Lol.

It is not only me. Frank also said it that it is 24/7 lifestyle for jhana.

Like I said, if anyone lose the jhana (Samma Samadhi) before end of life. Then, there will be suffering in sensual world right here & now, and there is no guarantee one will become a non returner at the very least (unless one has become an arahant, even then they will maintain samadhi state).

Why do anyone who has samadhi want to go back to sensual world is just weird?

sutta 1 lifetime is 1 day vinaya and 1 mind moment in abhidhamma. Every lifetime.. mind moment there is a reset of some sort, and start from scratch, slanting and sloping accordingly to the past cultivations thus can repeat attainments within day, every day, every life. You can do things earlier, sooner and thus can do more before reset.
Sutta attainment is irreversible within one lifetime. Once you attain something on that grade you won't attain anything below it in 1 day and 1 mind moment grade.
Other words there is gigantic cycle what includes physical, bodyly sensation, activity becoming concentrateable and ceased at the end. Biological liberation

[auto]

I think you use commentaries to explain it. I suggest just drop the commentaries and use only Sutta to explain.

you do realize that the commentaries are to sutta just like me and you would interpret what sutta means? rejecting commentary would be like throwing away the etalon "standard", without it i should just go by agreement, yes i agree what you say without any standard.

Can explain with sutta but it has to be in accord with the commentaries. If not, then most likely i am wrong not the commentaries.

[Joe.c]

I think you use commentaries to explain it. I suggest just drop the commentaries and use only Sutta to explain.

you do realize that the commentaries are to sutta just like me and you would interpret what sutta means? rejecting commentary would be like throwing away the etalon "standard", without it i should just go by agreement, yes i agree what you say without any standard.

No need any agreement until you prove it yourself. Similarly with all the thing in Sutta, all can be proven again and again because it is akaliko. Agree only when you see/know/realize the benefit.

The faith faculties mature because one follow the path and prove it again and again by themselves. Hence the doubt is clear, but it is gradual.

Problem with commentaries, they can be very very misleading, so one needs to be very very very careful. Too many got stumble.

Don’t bring anything Inside you, before you investigate clearly.

[auto]

Depend on person, it maybe fast because the virtue has been observed in the past. But it could be long until end of current life. But by end of life, one will definitely get the fruit.

attainments can be attained by being sloppy, play games 8 hours a day etc. Because of piggybacking on past cultivations. Wise is someone who has those cultivations, nothing to do if in this life(day, moment) one is a dumbass.

[auto]

No need any agreement until you prove it yourself. Similarly with all the thing in Sutta, all can be proven again and again because it is akaliko. Agree only when you see/know/realize the benefit.

Physical grade attainment is not proveable for a long time. You do those progress points, but once you get any meaningful place it is 50 years passed and then noobs can start finally follow up?
and or no-one to tell to "told ya so" since they all dead by then.

[auto]

Problem with commentaries, they can be very very misleading, so one needs to be very very very careful. Too many got stumble.

like some who reject visuddhimagga has somehow reach a conclusion that earth kasina involves having a retina burn(that the visuddhimagga teaches it).