No.
Who is a Buddhist?
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
Cleared. αδόξαστος.
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
This is just a poor paraphrasing ofCeisiwr wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 10:56 pm In his “Manual of the Excellent Man” Ledi Sayādaw sets out 10 basic points that make one a Buddhist.
This seems quite fair to me. Thoughts?One is called a Buddhist if one has the right view about one’s volitional actions being one’s own real possession that one cannot disown. More specifically, this understanding covers the following ten matters:
1. That giving alms is wholesome kamma.
2. That making offerings is wholesome kamma.
3. That giving even trifling gifts and presents is wholesome kamma.
4. That there are definite and appropriate results from wholesome and unwholesome actions.
5. That there is wholesome kamma in looking after one’s mother, and unwholesome kamma in treating her badly.
6. That there is wholesome kamma in looking after one’s father, and unwholesome kamma in treating him badly.
7. That there is this human world.
8. That there are also other worlds such as the hell realms and the celestial worlds of devas and brahmās.
9. That there are beings born spontaneously.
10. That there are recluses and brahmins in the world with genuine attainments through right practice, who, having realised through direct knowledge the truth regarding this world and the other worlds, make it known to others.
I see SamVara also saw where Ledi was drawing from.And what is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions? 'There is what is given, what is offered, what is sacrificed. There are fruits & results of good & bad actions. There is this world & the next world. There is mother & father. There are spontaneously reborn beings; there are contemplatives & brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.' This is the right view with effluents, siding with merit, resulting in acquisitions.
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
Well .. It is up to you.Deadelectronics wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:36 pm So, you agree that merely taking refuge makes you a Buddhist? Why would Ajatasatu go to hell if just taking refuge doesn't make you a Buddhist? It would be like buying a charm from a Mahayana temple.
People want to believe anything. If you think taking refuge make you a buddhist, then go ahead. I can't prevent anyone to believe on anything.
For me, refuge means nothing without practice. There are million recite the refuge, but most of them are in lower realms now.
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:55 am
My point is that it's counter-productive to brow-beat people about their religious identification.
A word should mean something if we're using it. Otherwise, why bother with it. And when people use the word "Buddhist", they most likely mean something by it. It just so happens to be taboo to discuss it.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
Glenn Wallis
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Re: Who is a Buddhist?
It means many things to different people.Radix wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:39 pmGreat minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:55 am
My point is that it's counter-productive to brow-beat people about their religious identification.
A word should mean something if we're using it. Otherwise, why bother with it. And when people use the word "Buddhist", they most likely mean something by it. It just so happens to be taboo to discuss it.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
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Re: Who is a Buddhist?
This sounds like justifying a wrong view
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
A agree. And it also depends on context. Under some circumstances it would be acceptable to label the same individual as a Buddhist, under other circumstances, not. For example, I have a friend who is averse to being called a Buddhist because she is aware of the absurdity of constructing a Buddhist "self" based on ideas and principles. In forums and debates she has some sophisticated and forceful arguments about other practitioners not labelling her, as she doesn't think it helpful. Yet she gives talks on Buddhism in local secondary schools, and is quite happy to be described as "the Buddhist lady" when the pupils contrast her with the representatives of other religions who have been invited.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:48 pmIt means many things to different people.Radix wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:39 pmGreat minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.Spiny Norman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:55 am
My point is that it's counter-productive to brow-beat people about their religious identification.
A word should mean something if we're using it. Otherwise, why bother with it. And when people use the word "Buddhist", they most likely mean something by it. It just so happens to be taboo to discuss it.
And I have known quite a few Thai people who do little that is recognisably "Buddhist" other than attend the local temple and chat to other Thais, and occasionally make donations. They slope off when meditation or chanting is scheduled, and although they have internalised a sense of respect around monks, you don't often see them listening to Dhamma-talks. On internet forums they might be labelled as "fake Buddhists", but most indigenous Brits would say that they are Buddhist.
Labels like that are not fixed for all time, such that a "real" label can be attached to people, and later commentators can get it right or wrong. Labelling someone is a one-off act, a momentary application of saññā which needs to be repeated in order to maintain an identity.
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
"You can mean by the word "Buddhism" whatever you want it to mean, as long as it is the same as what I want it to mean."
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
Glenn Wallis
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
"Buddhism" does not refer to a single religion. Like the term "Abrahamic," it refers to a plurality that shares common Buddhist mythology. Just as Judaism, Islam, and Christianity feature characters like "Jacob," "Noah," "Adam," "the One God," "his angels," "Enoch," "David," "Elijah," etc., Buddhist religions feature characters like "the Buddha," "Śāriputra," "Dīpaṃkara," "Kaśyapa," "Ajātaśatru," "Ānanda," "Devadatta," "Māra," etc.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Mon Oct 17, 2022 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
Ah yes, the Schrödinger Defense. One is simultaneously a Buddhist and yet not, but we can't know for sure. Buddhism is facing a decline, and it's not, but we can't know for sure. Thailand is a Buddhist country and it's not. We should do something to improve the quality of a Buddhist forum, and we should not. Because we're not sure we're really asleep at the wheel! Yay!Sam Vara wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:20 pmLabels like that are not fixed for all time, such that a "real" label can be attached to people, and later commentators can get it right or wrong. Labelling someone is a one-off act, a momentary application of saññā which needs to be repeated in order to maintain an identity.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
Glenn Wallis
Glenn Wallis
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
I'm not sure what it has got to do with Schrödinger, but it's certainly possible for one and the same person to be called a Buddhist and not a Buddhist at one and the same time. And for Buddhism to be declining in one person''s eyes, and thriving in another's. And for one person to think Thailand is Buddhist, and for another to think it's not.Radix wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 6:59 pmAh yes, the Schrödinger Defense. One is simultaneously a Buddhist and yet not, but we can't know for sure. Buddhism is facing a decline, and it's not, but we can't know for sure. Thailand is a Buddhist country and it's not. We should do something to improve the quality of a Buddhist forum, and we should not. Because we're not sure we're really asleep at the wheel! Yay!Sam Vara wrote: ↑Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:20 pmLabels like that are not fixed for all time, such that a "real" label can be attached to people, and later commentators can get it right or wrong. Labelling someone is a one-off act, a momentary application of saññā which needs to be repeated in order to maintain an identity.
That's just how labels work. I can't see any evidence of essentialism in what the Buddha taught which could get me thinking otherwise. Or anything worth stressing about.
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Re: Who is a Buddhist?
Can you be a bad Buddhist? Because that's how i'd categorize myself.
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
Labels must serve a purpose. Ontologically they are pretty meaningless. So, what purpose do you want this label to serve?
_/|\_
Re: Who is a Buddhist?
How are they ontologically meaningless?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”