I would like to know we are talking of apples and apples and not apples and oranges.Sam Vara wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:20 pmIn this context, the term "community" means those who use the word, and thereby constitute its meaning. In the case of "religion", it's those who use the word in everyday language. In the case of "sotapanna", it's Nyanaponika, Bhikkhu Bodhi, Goenka, Ajahns Thanissaro, Sujato, Sumedho, Sucitto, and Punnadhammo, among others, Richard Gombrich, and everyone on Dhamma Wheel who took issue with you. Plus, I dare say, a whole lot more.thepea wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:21 pmWhat is the “community” definition? Is this like what is a woman territory? Where it’s politically incorrect to answer?Sam Vara wrote: ↑Fri Oct 28, 2022 1:00 pm
I'm not deflecting. If you want to use dictionary definitions, then you need to be aware of the consequences. Either we trust a community-based view on how words are correctly used, or we don't.
If we trust one person's view of the special authority it gives them to pronounce on such matters, then one could claim that their own knowledge surpasses yours, and the ariyas are in fact all very religious.
Of course, one can always insist that all the others are wrong, and you alone are right. But if you do, you can hardly insist that a dictionary definition is authoritative.
From the descriptions of passing through the insight knowledges of mahasi sayadaw this seems to perfectly my definition of sotapanna and experience of Nibanna. This was the verified by bhante Guneratana and a couple teachers at Vipassana long course through standard questions and answers.
This is not an unachievable goal although not common.
Now.... since this I have observed that I can still kill. This is a fact, so something is worth exploring in traditional definitions of sotapatti. My reasons for publicly exploring this is no secret, there are those who say one should not declare achievements, I am simply disputing that by saying there are those who can and do.
I am still operating from a standard set of definitions with the words I use.
You have not yet defined a Buddhist?