Karma and consequently rebirth is a load of rubbish

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
samsarayoga
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Re: Karma and consequently rebirth is a load of rubbish

Post by samsarayoga »

Why are you slendering the Amish?
reality is not shaped by your mind, if this was the case there won't exist right view and wrong view to begin with (doh)
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cappuccino
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Re: Karma and consequently rebirth is a load of rubbish

Post by cappuccino »

samsarayoga wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 4:56 am Why are you slandering the Amish?
I’m not
Ontheway
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Re: Karma and consequently rebirth is a load of rubbish

Post by Ontheway »

Kamma and rebirth are real according to the Buddha's teachings.

If Kamma is like what OP said, then what is the point Lord Buddha preached Culakammavibhangasutta and Mahakammavibhangasutta?

If rebirth is like what OP mentioned, then why The Buddha verified the rebirth of other people such as this sutta:
Then Ven. Sariputta and Ven. Ananda, having given this instruction to Anathapindika the householder, got up from their seats and left. Then, not long after they left, Anathapindika the householder died and reappeared in the Tusita heaven. Then Anathapindika the devaputta, in the far extreme of the night, his extreme radiance lighting up the entirety of Jeta's Grove, went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, bowed down to him and stood to one side.

...

When this was said, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, "Lord, that must have been Anathapindika the devaputta. Anathapindika the householder had supreme confidence in Ven. Sariputta."

"Very good, Ananda. Very good, to the extent that you have deduced what can be arrived at through logic. That was Anathapindika the devaputta, and no one else."

That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, Ven. Ananda delighted in the Blessed One's words.
- Anathapindikovada sutta
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
ed.2004
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Re: Karma and consequently rebirth is a load of rubbish

Post by ed.2004 »

insubstantial wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:41 am
ed.2004 wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:07 am My friend, you better believe someone who actually saw the elephant and studied it in real life and touched it from the nose to the tail.

Those who you believe in are clueless. Those are the science guys. They do not know. Their ancestors did not know. They have never touched the elephant, they have never seen it. But still they insist on knowing it. Most of them are just simple ignorant followers, you may say believers of science. On the other hand, a lot of them, deep down, feel that they have been misled, but they just ignore this feeling. Wake up my friend.
For a start I'm not your friend..

Secondly I don't think any of these nebulous scientists who you refer to would claim they have all the answers and I don't believe in them as you assume only in the reliability of the method they use. Also who are you to say what anyone feels deep down? How conceited and smug can one person be!
:) I know them very well. I spend more time with them than with anyone else...

You can rarely meet anyone who is free from the decades of "learning".
ed.2004
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:59 am

Re: Karma and consequently rebirth is a load of rubbish

Post by ed.2004 »

Pondera wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:24 am
ed.2004 wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:07 am My friend, you better believe someone who actually saw the elephant and studied it in real life and touched it from the nose to the tail.

Those who you believe in are clueless. Those are the science guys. They do not know. Their ancestors did not know. They have never touched the elephant, they have never seen it. But still they insist on knowing it. Most of them are just simple ignorant followers, you may say believers of science. On the other hand, a lot of them, deep down, feel that they have been misled, but they just ignore this feeling. Wake up my friend.

@pondera Are you trolling? You have more than 2 thousands posts on a Theravada forum. The Tipitaka has thousands of pieces of evidence of rebirth and the consequences of your actions a.k. kamma. I am sure you have seen these pieces of evidence or part of them several times.
I’m not trolling. I simply don’t hold my self above those who don’t WHOLEHEARTEDLY accept rebirth as fact. And do you know why? Because a person who is convinced that rebirth is a FACT is possessed of one or two of two things.

A) he recollects past lives

B) he sees beings reborn in another world

These are the situations in which a Buddhist (even the Buddha himself) is able to say with conviction “there is rebirth”.

So who are we to say of those who have their doubts that they are wrong? You literally have to perfect the jhanas up to the fourth and when the mind is bent on the imperturbable , then focus it on past or future rebirths. That is a lot to ask of a common person. Even a genius!!!

Here I go again making a fool of myself. Listen. I have a spirit guide who talks to me, eggs me on to be a better person, a more spiritual person. That guide is powerful, from another dimension, possessing great wisdom and great skill in taming the mind’s of others for their own well being. When I am off the path, He appears as though evil - making my life hard to live. But when I have made progress he becomes friendly, encouraging, polite, and gives praise. He IS a great teacher. And I have no name for him.

You can also call this “MENTAL ILLNESS”. And it doesn’t matter to me what you call it. I cannot change the position I am in. I feel a constant need to be mindful, restraining the senses, and practicing anapanasati. If I don’t, he will teach me my “lesson”.

At one stage of my relationship with this being there was very little progress to be made. In other words, our relationship was at a point where I simply had to wait things out until my conditions got better. During this time I encountered many experiences. I “communicated” with many personalities. And if I told you who you would likely recoil with doubt.

One of the things I experienced was a past life recollection. I travelled by memory into the past. It was through the power of this extremely intelligent being I know and love. I saw my self as a fetus in my mothers womb. I journeyed back to the rebirth link where my consciousness in heaven descended upon my fetus in the womb. I traced this consciousness back through a short stay in heaven to my death bed in a former life. And from there I traced that life back to my existence as a house holder. I had a wife and two children. I remembered many details of that life. And when I stopped looking back, I watched that past life play out in front of my eyes.

I died, and my consciousness ascended to heaven. It stayed there for a short while. When the fetus in my mothers womb had reached the right point, my consciousness descended into the womb. I watched my growth in the womb; my present birth; my childhood; my stages in life up to the very moment I was in.

You will NEVER encounter a person who has both gone through as much INSANITY as I have, and also speaks intelligently; coherently; with some sense of logic. Let me brag for a moment. I have a wife. I own my home. I have an exceedingly meaningful job which I enjoy, and I am still enjoying the final stages of youth and health.

But I have been through some bullshit. And I have seen things you would not imagine or believe. And rebirth is one of them. However, I have also overcome delusion. And I have turned from a mentally ill person to one who can both behave normally and make rational decisions.

I will defend the right of anyone to leave the doctrine of rebirth out of their appreciation for Buddhism. It is not necessarily linked to enlightenment and liberation.
Sorry for the wording, "trolling".
I am none of these you mentioned (A, B). But still I believe that the Buddha told the truth. And we preserved it in the tipitaka. And the tipitaka has a ton of evidence of rebirth. I accept the tipitaka as an evidence.
ed.2004
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:59 am

Re: Karma and consequently rebirth is a load of rubbish

Post by ed.2004 »

Bundokji wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 11:08 am
insubstantial wrote: Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:41 am Secondly I don't think any of these nebulous scientists who you refer to would claim they have all the answers and I don't believe in them as you assume only in the reliability of the method they use.
They reliably invented a nuclear bomb, among many other things. That is for sure.
Really :). Very good example of how brainwashed we are. We saw it on TV (or youtube or whatever we have at the moment) so we know it is true.
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