This teaching is not ordinary.
Not the ordinary perspective.
If you understand the teaching… you are transcending the ordinary.
This teaching is not ordinary.
I would have thought that it's not "all or nothing". Nearly everyone can understand some aspects, and a very few understand it all. A continuum of understanding.cappuccino wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 10:18 pmThis teaching is not ordinary.
Not the ordinary perspective.
If you understand the teaching… you are transcending the ordinary.
If you're putting your faith in other people you aren't putting it in the Triple Gem.
This conversation is like pulling out fingernails.retrofuturist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:57 pmAre you assuming there's some requirement for lay people to promote the Dhamma or Buddhism?
Then by all means, let's be jerks -- as long as we get saved, right?
Hell is for decent people who weren’t concerned with hell
If you got answers you don't like, re-phrase your question.
Sorry to break it to you, but one doesn't need to be a jerk for s/he's already one. "Jerkfulness" is baked into the human OS (operating system) right from the get-go. So it's either one wants to stick with the default mode or at least try to do something about it.Radix wrote:But case in point: perhaps one needs to be a jerk in order to get saved.
Certainly, there's no sense in beating yourself up about having been a jerk. We just need to stop doing it when we recognise it.
He, who having been a jerk, ceases to be one, illuminates this world like the moon emerging from clouds
Only if you construe being a jerk as comprising every defilement. It depends on how you define the term, of course.But case in point: perhaps one needs to be a jerk in order to get saved.
It depends on one's goal, If it is merely to lead a good life with heaven as aspiration, several religions offer advice on this. But unlike other teachers Buddha has claimed that heaven is not everlasting.I would have thought that it's not "all or nothing".
This is true.Nearly everyone can understand some aspects, and a very few understand it all. A continuum of understanding.
Unfortunately, I apparently missed school when they taught Adam Smith.santa100 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:22 pmSorry to break it to you, but one doesn't need to be a jerk for s/he's already one. "Jerkfulness" is baked into the human OS (operating system) right from the get-go. So it's either one wants to stick with the default mode or at least try to do something about it.Radix wrote:But case in point: perhaps one needs to be a jerk in order to get saved.
Indeed. Beating yourself up for being a jerk is wrong. As Buddhists have taught me the hard way, one must always pursue one's interests without any consideration for other people or how they will be affected by those pursuits. And, of course, deny doing so. Everyone is responsible solely for themselves.
Good if you take responsibility
Well, nobody's perfect.Radix wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 5:59 pmUnfortunately, I apparently missed school when they taught Adam Smith.santa100 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:22 pmSorry to break it to you, but one doesn't need to be a jerk for s/he's already one. "Jerkfulness" is baked into the human OS (operating system) right from the get-go. So it's either one wants to stick with the default mode or at least try to do something about it.Radix wrote:But case in point: perhaps one needs to be a jerk in order to get saved.
If Buddhists have taught you that, then my initial recommendation was to find yourself some different Buddhists. But on reflection, it's probably more appropriate to recommend that you pay attention differently. What probably happened is that you approached them with particularly unhelpful and rigidly-held views, which then coloured how you perceived their responses.Radix wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 6:29 pmIndeed. Beating yourself up for being a jerk is wrong. As Buddhists have taught me the hard way, one must always pursue one's interests without any consideration for other people or how they will be affected by those pursuits. And, of course, deny doing so. Everyone is responsible solely for themselves.