Insects likely to be sentient and feel pain

[Meggo]

Abstract
The entomology literature has historically suggested insects cannot feel pain, leading to their exclusion from ethical debates and animal welfare legislation. However, there may be more neural and cognitive/behavioural evidence for pain in insects than previously considered. We use Birch et al. 's (2021) eight criteria for sentience to critically evaluate the evidence for pain in insects. We assess six orders (Blattodea, Coleoptera, Diptera, Hymenoptera, Lepidoptera, and Orthoptera) in at least two life stages (adult and first instar juveniles, as well as other instars where relevant data are found). Other insect orders have not received enough research effort to be evaluated. According to the Birch et al. framework, adult Diptera (flies and mosquitoes) and Blattodea (cockroaches and termites) satisfy six criteria, constituting strong evidence for pain. Adults of the remaining orders (except Coleoptera, beetles) and some juveniles (Blattodea and Diptera, as well as last instar Lepidoptera [butterflies and moths]) satisfy 3–4 criteria, or “substantial evidence for pain”. We found no good evidence that any insects failed a criterion. However, there were significant evidence gaps, particularly for juveniles, highlighting the importance of more research on insect pain. We conclude by considering the ethical implications of our findings where insects are managed in wild, farmed, and research contexts.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0622000170

[Aloka]

It seems logical to assume that all living beings on our planet are sentient and feel pain. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

[Sam Vara]

I don't know about the science, but I've always liked this poem by William Blake:

Little fly,
Thy summer’s play
My thoughtless hand
Has brushed away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink and sing,
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength and breath,
And the want
Of thought is death,

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die.

[DNS]

It seems logical to assume that all living beings on our planet are sentient and feel pain. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

That's what I think too. However, there was a previous thread on this and some quoted some scientific studies which suggested they don't feel pain. When someone asked me what makes me think they feel pain, I mentioned when they are injured they appear to be squirming in pain. I suppose we could ask it the other way in what makes them think that they don't feel pain. Can we really understand what's going on in those tiny brains and their sensations?

It's good to see a scientific study arguing that there is pain.

[[james]]

It seems logical to assume that all living beings on our planet are sentient and feel pain.

When someone asked me what makes me think they feel pain, I mentioned when they are injured they appear to be squirming in pain.

It’s not logical to assume that all sentient beings feel pain in the same way that humans do. We cannot even assume that any two people experience pain in the same way. As for squirming in pain … another assumption, since we can’t say with certainty that what the squirming being is experiencing is pain. Could be ecstasy. Could be nothing. I was struck by a cyclist a couple of years ago and can only describe it as a complete absence of experience. Let’s not assume.

[mjaviem]

I think what is most important is to not be heartlessly indifferent or cruel about them, regardless whether there's pain or not. We should compassionate for all living beings. (Perhaps even living automatons one day.)

[Sam Vara]

It seems logical to assume that all living beings on our planet are sentient and feel pain.

When someone asked me what makes me think they feel pain, I mentioned when they are injured they appear to be squirming in pain.

It’s not logical to assume that all sentient beings feel pain in the same way that humans do. We cannot even assume that any two people experience pain in the same way. As for squirming in pain … another assumption, since we can’t say with certainty that what the squirming being is experiencing is pain. Could be ecstasy. Could be nothing. I was struck by a cyclist a couple of years ago and can only describe it as a complete absence of experience. Let’s not assume.

When we're not assuming, though, how should we treat insects, and why?

[DNS]

I think what is most important is to not be heartlessly indifferent or cruel about them, regardless whether there's pain or not. We should compassionate for all living beings.

[DNS]

It’s not logical to assume that all sentient beings feel pain in the same way that humans do. We cannot even assume that any two people experience pain in the same way. As for squirming in pain … another assumption, since we can’t say with certainty that what the squirming being is experiencing is pain. Could be ecstasy. Could be nothing. I was struck by a cyclist a couple of years ago and can only describe it as a complete absence of experience. Let’s not assume.

When we're not assuming, though, how should we treat insects, and why?

Exactly, if we're not assuming anything for sure, then all the more reason to stay on the side of ahimsa and not intentionally kill them (as much as humanly possible).

[[james]]

Exactly, if we're not assuming anything for sure, then all the more reason to stay on the side of ahimsa and not intentionally kill them (as much as humanly possible).

I completely agree. What’s more, we can contribute to the conditions of well being of those whose circumstances are beyond our limited understanding. This could be as uncomplicated as letting them be.

[[james]]

When we're not assuming, though, how should we treat insects, and why?

We should treat them with respect. We should not be fearfully waging war on them. We should do so because we have the capacity to act with compassion and wisdom. When we give an insect our respect, we are self respecting.

[mjaviem]

You removed the robot beings part. This one was the most compassionate of them all.

[DNS]

You removed the robot beings part. This one was the most compassionate of them all.

[Johann]

It seems logical to assume that all living beings on our planet are sentient and feel pain. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

To justify wrongdoing, to justifying by "not worthy", good householder?

And it's not so that logic and reasoning justify harmful deeds. Does a tree, does an Arahat, does a Brahma, a deity, what ever lives, breaths, does the potato, the seed, feel pain?

Do those, not giving signs of burden in sacrifices, those of goodness, feel pain? Whouln't one, not holding on anything, be not regarded as an open space to take, by those not fearing of taking what's not given?

Who wouldn't abort if it's perceived as a pain, not worthy the sacrifices necessary for it?

[DNS]

It seems logical to assume that all living beings on our planet are sentient and feel pain. I can't understand why anyone would think otherwise.

To justify wrongdoing, to justifying by "not worthy", good householder?

I think you misunderstood Aloka. Aloka is saying that they are sentient and can feel pain; not that they are "not worthy."