How does the practice of anapanasati relate to paticca-samuppada?

[auto]

Even mahanama or anathapindika, who were the lay follower stream enterer, no Sutta that explain Buddha taught them anapanasati. If they train in anapanasati, clearly they will be at least non returner.

Anāthapiṇḍika became non-returner. He reborn as a god. Without jhana one doesn't have a god kamma to reborn as a god.

he received instructions like these,

“That’s why, householder, you should train like this:
“Tasmātiha te, gahapati, evaṁ sikkhitabbaṁ:
‘I shall not grasp the eye, and there shall be no consciousness of mine dependent on the eye.’
‘na cakkhuṁ upādiyissāmi, na ca me cakkhunissitaṁ viññāṇaṁ bhavissatī’ti.
That’s how you should train.
Evañhi te, gahapati, sikkhitabbaṁ.

could be the liberation through non-grasping. Also to be like a god(when alive) one needs be gone forth, but he were exception since these teachings occurred for the sariputta to teach him.

[Lal]

Some day, the two of you will read those posts of yours and will be highly embarrassed. So much to learn!

[auto]

Some day, the two of you will read those posts of yours and will be highly embarrassed. So much to learn!

I noticed you had put more effort in writing your last post.

[Joe.c]

Even mahanama or anathapindika, who were the lay follower stream enterer, no Sutta that explain Buddha taught them anapanasati. If they train in anapanasati, clearly they will be at least non returner.

Anāthapiṇḍika became non-returner. He reborn as a god. Without jhana one doesn't have a god kamma to reborn as a god.

he received instructions like these,

“That’s why, householder, you should train like this:
“Tasmātiha te, gahapati, evaṁ sikkhitabbaṁ:
‘I shall not grasp the eye, and there shall be no consciousness of mine dependent on the eye.’
‘na cakkhuṁ upādiyissāmi, na ca me cakkhunissitaṁ viññāṇaṁ bhavissatī’ti.
That’s how you should train.
Evañhi te, gahapati, sikkhitabbaṁ.

could be the liberation through non-grasping. Also to be like a god(when alive) one needs be gone forth, but he were exception since these teachings occurred for the sariputta to teach him.

Did you read the Sutta again?

He is in Tusita. He will comeback. But not for awhile 576 million human years.

Not long after they had left, Anāthapiṇḍika passed away and was reborn in the host of Tusita Gods.
Atha kho anāthapiṇḍiko gahapati, acirapakkante āyasmante ca sāriputte āyasmante ca ānande, kālamakāsi tusitaṁ kāyaṁ upapajji.

Btw to be reborn in Kama heaven Realm, one doesn't need jhana. You just needs perfect precepts and wisdom. The higher the wisdom, the higher the heaven.

[Joe.c]

Some day, the two of you will read those posts of yours and will be highly embarrassed. So much to learn!

Well don't wait till end of body to realize you make a BIG mistake. Especially keep propagating your papanca and said it is as Buddha said. It is a big NO NO.

Buddha teaching is to realize here and now with developing faculties. No need even to know about kamma mundanely. Most people try to understand Kamma mundanely and got stuck.

One just needs to understood Kamma supramundanely is more than enough.

[auto]

Did you read the Sutta again?

He is in Tusita. He will comeback. But not for awhile 576 million human years.

Not long after they had left, Anāthapiṇḍika passed away and was reborn in the host of Tusita Gods.
Atha kho anāthapiṇḍiko gahapati, acirapakkante āyasmante ca sāriputte āyasmante ca ānande, kālamakāsi tusitaṁ kāyaṁ upapajji.

Btw to be reborn in Kama heaven Realm, one doesn't need jhana. You just needs perfect precepts and wisdom. The higher the wisdom, the higher the heaven.

sorry my bad,
It clears up some things regards to the instructions he got, they not about jhana. There were a conflict in my theory. I must have mistaken someone else to be in non-returner heaven, it prolly were the one who buddha asked to manifest into solid form.

[Joe.c]

sorry my bad,
It clears up some things regards to the instructions he got, they not about jhana. There were a conflict in my theory. I must have mistaken someone else to be in non-returner heaven, it prolly were the one who buddha asked to manifest into solid form.

O yes. There is one non returner who comeback and talked to Buddha. Hatthaka (of Alavi) that when to Aviha.

...Then, late at night, the glorious god Hatthaka, lighting up the entire Jeta’s Grove, went up to the Buddha. Thinking, “I will stand before the Buddha,” he sank and melted down, and wasn’t able to stay still. It’s like when ghee or oil is poured on sand, it sinks and melts down, and can’t remain stable.

Then the Buddha said to Hatthaka, “Hatthaka, manifest in a solid life-form.”

“Yes, sir,” replied Hatthaka. He manifested in a solid life-form, bowed to the Buddha, and stood to one side.

The Buddha said to him, “Hatthaka, I wonder whether you still rehearse now the teachings that you rehearsed when you were a human being?”

I still rehearse now the teachings that I rehearsed as a human being. And I also rehearse teachings that I didn’t rehearse as a human being.

Just as the Buddha these days lives crowded by monks, nuns, laymen, and laywomen; by rulers and their ministers, and teachers of other paths and their disciples, so I live crowded by the gods. The gods come from far away, thinking, ‘We’ll hear the teaching in the presence of Hatthaka.’

Sir, I passed away without getting enough of three things. What three? Seeing the Buddha; hearing the true teaching; and serving the Saṅgha. I passed away without getting enough of these three things.

I could never get enough
of seeing the Buddha,
serving the Saṅgha,
or hearing the teaching.

Training in the higher ethics,
loving to hear the true teaching,
Hatthaka has gone to the Aviha realm
without getting enough of these three things.”

[Scabrella]

O yes. There is one non returner who comeback and talked to Buddha. Hatthaka (of Alavi) that when to Aviha.

Sir, I passed away without getting enough of three things. What three? Seeing the Buddha; hearing the true teaching; and serving the Saṅgha. I passed away without getting enough of these three things.

Hello. Michael Jackson published a song called "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough". Wikipedia says:

In Buddhism, an anāgāmin (Sanskrit; Pāli: anāgāmī, lit. "non-returning")[1] is a partially enlightened person who has cut off the first five fetters that bind the ordinary mind. Anāgāmins are the third of the four aspirants.

The anāgāmin is not reborn into the human world after death, but into the heaven of the Pure Abodes, where only anāgāmins reside. There they attain full enlightenment (arahantship).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An%C4%81g%C4%81mi

Why was the guy in the scripture a non returner? If the guy was a non returner, why did the guy return? Thank you.

[Joe.c]

Hello. Michael Jackson published a song called "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough". Wikipedia says:

Er... Can you ask Michael Jackson why?

Why was the guy in the scripture a non returner? Thank you

Check AN 8.23, AN 8.24, AN 3.35, AN 4.176. a non returner for a householder is the highest standard in Buddha teaching. Essentially, one live like a monk.

Just check also AN 8.22 where a non returner give up his wifes. When you get into Jhana and maintained it 24/7, those sex is not sexy anymore.

[Scabrella]

Check AN 8.23, AN 8.24, AN 3.35, AN 4.176. a non returner for a householder is the highest standard in Buddha teaching. Essentially, one live like a monk.

Just check also AN 8.22 where a non returner give up his wifes. When you get into Jhana and maintained it 24/7, those sex is not sexy anymore.

I was asking about the guy Hatthaka. I tried to read these numbers and Ugga of Hatthigāma was a non returner. Can you show me where is it written Hatthaka was a non returner? Thank you

[auto]

- The phrase “assasissāmī’ti sikkhati” becomes apparent when written, “assa sissāmī’ti sikkhati” That means, “He trains by taking in what will be good for that training (purifying the mind).”
- In the same way, “passasissāmī’ti sikkhati” means “He trains by discarding what will be bad for that training (which is to purify the mind).”
- Those Verses in #10 and #11 are critical and appear many times throughout the sutta. We will discuss them in detail in an upcoming post.

just curious what the kaya is in the anapanasati sutta? that sutta have also kayasankhara word, which you said they are in and out breaths if in some other sutta.

on other sutta
you interpret it leaving out a layer whether one finds interest or desire(rajjati) for that sight or not.

"Mālukyaputta Sutta (SN 35.95)" at the marker I have linked to: https://suttacentral.net/sn35.95/en/suj ... latin#12.1 where it says: "‘Rūpaṁ disvā sati muṭṭhā" OR "mindfulness is lost upon seeing an attractive sight (for those who don't have Sammā Sati)." That can happen with all six senses, as the sutta explains below.

What matters is if there is desire or not for the sight. If no desire then mindfulness is not lost.

Experiencing it with a mind free of desire,
Virattacitto vedeti,

i could imagine something similar happen with the sabba­kāya­paṭi­saṁ­vedī in anapanasati sutta, when kayasankhara becomes still then the practice .. experiencing rapture is without desire for it,
compare it with this quote,

Their consciousness doesn’t follow after that rapture and bliss born of seclusion, and is not tied, attached, and fettered to gratification in that rapture and bliss born of seclusion. So their mind is said to be not stuck internally.

so buddha doesn't teach anapanasati to those who have rajjati(word from sn35.95) for sights, sounds..

“Nāhaṁ, bhikkhave, muṭṭhassatissa asampajānassa ānāpānassatiṁ vadāmi.”
Translation: “I do not teach this Ānāpānasati (Bhāvanā) to those who do not have (sammā) sati.”
- Anyone who has not understood the Four Noble Truths/Paṭicca Samuppāda/Tilakkhana would not have sammā sati.

[Lal]

I have explained why I do not engage in discussions with some people. That message may not have gotten through. They keep asking me questions.

As I pointed out earlier, the Buddha himself explained the reasoning to a Brahmin in the following sutta:

Khettūpama Sutta (SN 42.7):https://suttacentral.net/sn42.7/en/suja ... =latin#1.3

Let me quote from the Sutta Central translation of relevant passages:

Brahmin:“Well, sir, why exactly do you teach some people thoroughly and others less thoroughly?”

Buddha: “Well then, chief, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. What do you think? Suppose a farmer has three fields: one’s good, one’s average, and one’s poor—bad ground of sand and salt.
What do you think? When that farmer wants to plant seeds, where would he plant them first: the good field, the average one, or the poor one?”
Brahmin:“Sir, he’d plant them first in the good field, then the average, then he may or may not plant seed in the poor field.“

Buddha: Why is that?
Brahmin: Because at least it can be fodder for the cattle.

Buddha: “To me, the monks and nuns are like the good field.I teach them the Dhamma that’s good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, meaningful and well-phrased. And I reveal a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure.
Why is that? Because they live with me as their island, protection, shelter, and refuge.

To me, the laymen and laywomen are like the average field. I also teach them the Dhamma that’s good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, meaningful and well-phrased. And I reveal a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure.
Why is that? Because they live with me as their island, protection, shelter, and refuge.

To me, the ascetics, brahmins, and wanderers who follow other paths are like the poor field, the bad ground of sand and salt. I also teach them the Dhamma that’s good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, meaningful and well-phrased. And I reveal a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure.
Why is that? Hopefully they might understand even a single sentence, which would be for their lasting welfare and happiness."

*******

So, the Buddha would allocate only whatever spare time he has for those who cannot comprehend the profound Dhamma. Now, that is not necessarily due to a lack of intelligence. It is primarily due to highly-ingrained wrong views some people have.

So, I will respond only when I see a question asked respectfully and is worthy of my time to respond.
- I am not here to sell anything. Each person needs to make up their mind based on the evidence presented. If you don't like what I say, that is fine.
There is no need to keep asking me questions. Answering them will not make any difference to you. But some others can understand the points I am making.
- -So, those I have already explicitly indicated: Please don't expect me to answer your comments directed at me. Please enjoy the discussions among yourselves.

[auto]

I have explained why I do not engage in discussions with some people. That message may not have gotten through. They keep asking me questions.

To whom you are telling this?

So, I will respond only when I see a question asked respectfully and is worthy of my time to respond.

your posts are mostly copy paste from previous posts, care i add that your responds to questions are also copy paste from previous posts and recently your rants are also copy paste nothing new 5 times done that already. Begs me a question what are you doing then in your daily life?

Now can we get anotehr eharing about how immature and disrespectful randoms are? and how hard your life is, you need bear a lot of critizism?

earlier you said about being embarrassed, well i feel embarrassed making this post - your fault.

[Joe.c]

Check AN 8.23, AN 8.24, AN 3.35, AN 4.176. a non returner for a householder is the highest standard in Buddha teaching. Essentially, one live like a monk.

Just check also AN 8.22 where a non returner give up his wifes. When you get into Jhana and maintained it 24/7, those sex is not sexy anymore.

I was asking about the guy Hatthaka. I tried to read these numbers and Ugga of Hatthigāma was a non returner. Can you show me where is it written Hatthaka was a non returner? Thank you

ah... now we are chasing back and forth. Look at AN 3.127. Only one who is a non returner can go to Aviha realm. He came back to tell Buddha that his teaching lead him to Aviha realm.

This is why Buddha can double/triple/many ways to confirm his teaching is indeed lead to different Ariyahood (First, he has the direct knowledge, then the Gods come and tell him that indeed it is or he can go to other realms to check). Not only 1, 2, 3, but many many people that heard and practice his teaching.

Hence, Buddha knows his knowledge is supreme to other teachers who are hollow and have No Proof.

So don't waste your time, practice precepts first and keep hearing true dhamma (Sutta).

One who practice and follow the exact steps will get the result NOW. Not in future after you died.

[Joe.c]

Khettūpama Sutta (SN 42.7):https://suttacentral.net/sn42.7/en/suja ... =latin#1.3

Problem with this quote is you are assuming you are similar to a Buddha. In fact, you are not. Sorry.

So, the Buddha would allocate only whatever spare time he has for those who cannot comprehend the profound Dhamma. Now, that is not necessarily due to a lack of intelligence. It is primarily due to highly-ingrained wrong views some people have.

No, When someone come and asking Buddha, Buddha always teach. However, he will not randomly teach anapanasati, because he know it is a BIG WASTE of TIME for him and the listener. They can't realize the result here and now.

That is why he explain step by step of gradual training, and then when the mind is ready teach 4NT.

Anyone whose mind is opened can be taught.