Does sex gives me suffering in this life?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
bpallister
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Re: Does sex gives me suffering in this life?

Post by bpallister »

DNS wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:08 pm [trigger warning for those who don't like jokes]

An older couple hooked up together online and agreed to date and possibly get married.

The man asked the woman:
How often would you like to have sex?

Woman:
I would like it infrequently.

Man:
When you said 'infrequently' was that one word or two words?
:rofl:
riceandcashews
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Re: Does sex gives me suffering in this life?

Post by riceandcashews »

IMO, the main problems of sensuality (sex, food, back aches, etc.) are sensuality-clinging/craving, rather than sensuality-desire.

Sensuality-desire (chanda, not tanha) is listed as one of the taints, which seem to be obstructions to meditative practices that lead to insight that dissolves ignorance (of not-self, and of stress, and of impermanence). Obviously, practicing mindful concentration on one's own mind and gaining insight into the impermanent, not-self, conditioned nature of everything that arises would be difficult if you are constantly pre-occupied with desires for a milkshake, getting revenge against your neighbor, taking a nap, wanting to get up and move the body, or doubt and thinking about whether paying attention to your own mental activity is actually useful/valuable. So it seems to me that the five hindrances (where sensuality-desire in general is portrayed as problematic) is related to the context of meditation practice.

TBH I think the impact of sexuality specifically is quite different in the modern day than it was 2000+ years ago. If you had sex 2000+ years ago, you were essentially guaranteed to eventually have a child. Having a child when not desired is extremely problematic because it harms the child to not be desired, and harms the parent to have the burden of an unwanted child. Sex outside marriage without intent to have children was generally frowned on by religions historically for this reason alone. It's irresponsible to proliferate children without the intent and ability to take care of them. Even if one did want a child, clearly having a child is a huge responsibility that will heavily distract one from the path of contemplation. Not that it is wrong to have children with intent, but instead that it would represent a major obstacle to the path, slowing one's progress substantially.

In the modern era, sex has lost that binding tie to eventually having children. It's not hard to use protection, birth control, etc. That's why there has been such a shift away from abstinence to safe-sex and family-planning in many philosophical/spiritual/religious traditions. With this kind of safety available, sex represents little more of an obstacle than chocolate cake, imo (which is to say there is SOME risk if addictive tendencies develop). But regardless, clearly the risk of having children unintentionally is far more damaging to a lay practitioner early on the path than enjoying a little safe sex. So my advice if you are seriously interested in the path is to not have children and thus to have safe sex if you decide to have sex, and to generally approach sex mindful of the dhamma in the same way that you might approach eating chocolate cake mindful of the dhamma. This is not-self, this is stress, this is impermanent.

There's a difference between desire and craving (desire rooted in ignorance, esp. relative to not-self). The Buddha and arahants have desires, as evidenced by their teaching the dhamma and sustaining a pleasant abiding in this life. The Buddha even does things that are based in sensuality-desire periodically, such as going to lay down because his back hurts after lecturing for a long time and being unable to continue. It's also important to remember that there are such things as lay practitioners who exist within the 4 stages of enlightenment who enjoy sense pleasures, and at least in certain interpretations lay arahants should also be possible. IMO, teachings also need to be understood and contextualized in the difference in teachings meant for monastics specifically v. lay practitioners.

Obviously, much of what I've said here is going to be controversial.
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zerotime
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Re: Does sex gives me suffering in this life?

Post by zerotime »

Jinny999 wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 6:47 pm
Like, if I get married, and live a lay life, how does sex gives me suffering in this life?

I think I'm asking stupid question, but I want to solve this problem. And have good knowledge about this.
not stupid, just it doesn't have many sense in this Path. If you are really worried to produce such type of kamma, then you should become a monk.

This is the right way to be engaged in a life of purification avoiding sex. While the monks are driving on a highway, we are driving on a secondary road. Secondary roads seems to be more pleasurable, entertained, dangerous and slower. That's the point.

The only real question is about living inside the society or outside. If one keep the lay life, then one can have sex, children, dog, boss, job, TV and the rest of things. Logically all these things also brings dukkha soon or later.

An hypocrite and puritan obsession to avoid sex in the lay life doesn't have nothing to do with Buddhism. This seems to be an inheritance of the brain programming performed by the Semitic religion in our western societies. And still there is quite people who seems very worried about sex to offend nobody knows, except to themselves.
Question on kamma about a normal consented sex, most times are ridicule because we are producing kamma non-stop; and not mention of past kamma still to be fructified.

In this board these questions seem to be a classic. Always there is people asking about sex, masturbation and the rest.

I believe all that people can have sex or masturbate themselves like bonobos, until become pale like vampires. It doesn't care regarding the Buddhist progress in the lay life. That potential situation of squeezing their genitals only will cause obsessions and the exhaustion of their vital force. This only would have a secondary relation with the progress. Because the damages caused to their bodies and minds, and also the unavoidable problems with other people involved.

In the lay life the obsession with sex can cause problems due to an excess or a suppression. Anyone can try if don't believe it.
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cappuccino
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Re: Does sex gives me suffering in this life?

Post by cappuccino »

zerotime wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:04 pm While the monks are driving on a highway, we are driving on a secondary road. Secondary roads seems to be more pleasurable, entertained, dangerous and slower. That's the point.
:goodpost:
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