Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

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ZhengShen
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Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by ZhengShen »

Greetings! I'm a Mahayana Buddhist by practice, but want to get closer to the Pali scriptures. Since there are now excellent translations of all of the five Nikayas, I'd be interested in some guidance about which might be the best place to start. I realize they're organized by form, rather than by topic - and that's no problem for me. But of the five, which do members think is the best beginning?

Many thanks!

Zheng Shen
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Lucas Oliveira
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Lucas Oliveira »

1 - Digha Nikaya
The Long Discourses

2 - Majjhima Nikaya
The Middle-length Discourses

3 - Samyutta Nikaya
The Grouped Discourses

4 - Anguttara Nikaya
The Further-factored Discourses

5 - Khuddaka Nikaya
The Collection of Little Texts

Tipitaka - Overview - Amaravati Library
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:anjali:
Last edited by Lucas Oliveira on Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Red Belly
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Red Belly »

First of all, welcome to the forum! This is an excellent question.

I think the nikaya generally recommended as a starting point is the Majjhima Nikaya, or Middle Length Discourses. This collection covers nearly all the most important point taught by the Buddha in an easily digestible form. It is just excellent. My next choice would be the Digha Nikaya, or Long Discourses; they actually aren't that long, and are some of the most entertaining and colorful of the suttas. I'm sure others will be along shortly with their own recommendations, but these are mine.

Happy reading!
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Ceisiwr »

ZhengShen wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:51 am Greetings! I'm a Mahayana Buddhist by practice, but want to get closer to the Pali scriptures. Since there are now excellent translations of all of the five Nikayas, I'd be interested in some guidance about which might be the best place to start. I realize they're organized by form, rather than by topic - and that's no problem for me. But of the five, which do members think is the best beginning?

Many thanks!

Zheng Shen
I started with the Majjhima Nikāya and it remains one of my favourites to this day. How the Nikāya's were likely intended however was the DN for new converts, MN for those just initiated, SN for more advanced practice and understanding and AN used as a repository for popular teachings (hence why it has the most suttas aimed at laypeople).
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
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Sam Vara
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Sam Vara »

Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:59 pm
ZhengShen wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:51 am Greetings! I'm a Mahayana Buddhist by practice, but want to get closer to the Pali scriptures. Since there are now excellent translations of all of the five Nikayas, I'd be interested in some guidance about which might be the best place to start. I realize they're organized by form, rather than by topic - and that's no problem for me. But of the five, which do members think is the best beginning?

Many thanks!

Zheng Shen
I started with the Majjhima Nikāya and it remains one of my favourites to this day. How the Nikāya's were likely intended however was the DN for new converts, MN for those just initiated, SN for more advanced practice and understanding and AN used as a repository for popular teachings (hence why it has the most suttas aimed at laypeople).
That makes a lot of sense, C. Do you have a reference for it?
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Coëmgenu
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Coëmgenu »

I'm also a Mahāyāna Buddhist. I started with Dīghanikāya.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Sam Vara wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:36 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:59 pm
ZhengShen wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:51 am Greetings! I'm a Mahayana Buddhist by practice, but want to get closer to the Pali scriptures. Since there are now excellent translations of all of the five Nikayas, I'd be interested in some guidance about which might be the best place to start. I realize they're organized by form, rather than by topic - and that's no problem for me. But of the five, which do members think is the best beginning?

Many thanks!

Zheng Shen
I started with the Majjhima Nikāya and it remains one of my favourites to this day. How the Nikāya's were likely intended however was the DN for new converts, MN for those just initiated, SN for more advanced practice and understanding and AN used as a repository for popular teachings (hence why it has the most suttas aimed at laypeople).
That makes a lot of sense, C. Do you have a reference for it?
It's in Bhikkhu Bodhi's introduction to the Aṅguttara Nikāya. It made a lot of sense to me as well, and helps to explain the different flavours of the Nikāyas.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
santa100
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by santa100 »

ZhengShen wrote:But of the five, which do members think is the best beginning?
Ven. Bodhi tends to favor the MN to start with. He provides his take in "Middle Length Discourses":
MN Intro wrote:If the Majjhima Nik›ya were to be characterised by a single
phrase to distinguish it from among the other books of the Pali
Canon, this might be done by describing it as the collection that
combines the richest variety of contextual settings with the
deepest and most comprehensive assortment of teachings. Like
the Dıgha Nik›ya, the Majjhima is replete with drama and narrative, while lacking much of its predecessor’s tendency
towards imaginative embellishment and profusion of legend.
Like the Saªyutta, it contains some of the profoundest discourses
in the Canon, disclosing the Buddha’s radical insights into the
nature of existence; and like the Anguttara, it covers a wide
range of topics of practical applicability. In contrast to those two
Nik›yas, however, the Majjhima sets forth this material not in
the form of short, self-contained utterances, but in the context of
a fascinating procession of scenarios that exhibit the Buddha’s
resplendence of wisdom, his skill in adapting his teachings to
the needs and proclivities of his interlocutors, his wit and gentle
humour, his majestic sublimity, and his compassionate humanity.
BKh
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by BKh »

ZhengShen wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:51 am …I realize they're organized by form, rather than by topic…
This is not actually true. Within each Nikaya there is topical grouping, although it is not absolute.

Although you ask about which nikaya to start with, reading an anthology to begin is actually a better strategy. For that most people recommend reading Bhikkhu Bodhi's In The Buddha's Words.

This website will give you lots of tips on what and how to read: https://readingfaithfully.org

And if you like to get a small-ish sutta every day by email, then this website will give you that: https://daily.readingfaithfully.org
| One sutta per day to your inbox | ReadingFaithfully.org Support for reading the Suttas | Citation lookup helper | Instant sutta name lookup | Instant PED lookup | Instant DPPN lookup |
ZhengShen
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by ZhengShen »

Thank you for all the helpful and thoughtful replies! I think I'll start with the AN - I like aphorisms, so that looks like a good source - and I'll also start through the MN. I have tried "Words of the Buddha" - it's a great book, but I prefer struggling with original texts. It's just in my nature. And I've also signed up for the sutta a day email.

Again - many thanks! This has been very helpful, and encouraged me to get started on something I've been putting off...


Zheng Shen
BKh
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by BKh »

ZhengShen wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:04 am I have tried "Words of the Buddha" - it's a great book, but I prefer struggling with original texts. It's just in my nature.
So, is it that you prefer "struggling" or that you prefer "original texts"? 😁

The book The Word of the Buddha is a completely different book from In the Buddha's Words. The first is short and has a lot of chopped up suttas. It's good, but I much more recommend the second one by Bhikkhu Bodhi. There the suttas are generally complete.

I only mention this because they are both "original texts".

But if it's struggling that you prefer, perhaps try holding the book upside down. That would make it a struggle. 🤣

Seriously, The AN is good to get started with. And so is the MN.
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Red Belly
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Red Belly »

It's also worth noting that Bikkhu Bodhi's commentaries on the suttas, whether found in the complete editions or In the Buddha's Words, are pure gold. He has a gift for explaining profound things simply, in a modern voice. If you are planning to read these works in English, this is worth keeping in mind.
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mikenz66
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by mikenz66 »

BKh's site has the introductory sections of In the Buddha's words, and links to Bhikkhu Sujato's translations on Sutta Central. In addition to Bhikkhu Bodhi's excellent notes, I've found it very helpful to read Bhikkhu Bodhi's and Bhikkhu Sujato's translations in parallel. Their different word choices can illuminate different aspects of the texts. They also save one from over interpreting the associations that particular English words have and from thinking that there can be a "perfect translation". It's also worth reading other translations, such as on https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/index.html or https://www.ancient-buddhist-texts.net/

:heart:
Mike
Dhammapardon
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Dhammapardon »

I found listening to the audio as sort of "guided meditation" very helpful. If you can find them free, excellent. If not, some are on audible. Just look up Bhikkhu Bodhi.

Also, I am looking for the other 3 on audio if anyone knows where (DN, AN, KN) :meditate:
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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Aloka
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Re: Which of the Five Nikayas is the best place to start?

Post by Aloka »

ZhengShen wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:51 am Greetings! I'm a Mahayana Buddhist by practice, but want to get closer to the Pali scriptures. Since there are now excellent translations of all of the five Nikayas, I'd be interested in some guidance about which might be the best place to start. I realize they're organized by form, rather than by topic - and that's no problem for me. But of the five, which do members think is the best beginning?

Many thanks!

Zheng Shen
If it hasn't already been mentioned, "In the Buddha's Words - An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon " by Bhikkhu Bodhi is a good place to start.

https://ia800909.us.archive.org/2/items ... tor%29.pdf


:anjali:
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