Iron Age Nibbāna

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
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Ceisiwr
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Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by Ceisiwr »

Does anyone know of any academic books, articles, videos whatever which discuss how nibbāna was likely used and understood by non-Buddhists during the time of the Buddha? For example Brahmins, Jains, Ājīvika etc.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
SarathW
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by SarathW »

I can't recall any specific discussion however DN1 discusses how iron age Nibbana was perceived.
Also MN 1

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .bodh.html
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Goofaholix
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by Goofaholix »

Before the Buddha used it as a metaphor for awakening it just meant cooling down a pot (or similar) after cooking, or do you have reason to believe this isn't the case?
Pronouns (no self / not self)
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Ceisiwr
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by Ceisiwr »

Goofaholix wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:11 pm Before the Buddha used it as a metaphor for awakening it just meant cooling down a pot (or similar) after cooking, or do you have reason to believe this isn't the case?
It's used in Jainism, and I think it was used in Ājīvika too. We see ascetics in the suttas claiming Jhāna is it, and even hedonists for when desires are fulfilled.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
samsarayoga
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by samsarayoga »

But what if the bronze age never happened?
reality is not shaped by your mind, if this was the case there won't exist right view and wrong view to begin with (doh)
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:15 pm even hedonists for when desires are fulfilled.
That’s because they are temporarily without desire
Slowlearner5
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by Slowlearner5 »

On that topic, we have this current age over 5000 years or much more, but no mention of other ages in the suttas I don't think. Yet there's myths of other Buddha's from past ages. So before the ice melted 13000 years ago, that was logically the previous age, now mostly drowned I suppose. So are there hidden or banned suttas, or suttas only for high monks in a Buddhist council.
I mean you only need to sit around a fire 30000 years ago every night and someone will become a natural meditator, there must be some kind of dhamma from way back then , no?
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by Coëmgenu »

samsarayoga wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:33 am But what if the bronze age never happened?
What if E-Sangha never existed? What if the stories of the origins of this very forum were a conspiracy to justify its existence?

:rolleye: :rolleye: :rolleye:

What if "early Buddhism" never happened? What if "early Buddhism" is just a conspiracy to justify the existence of later Buddhism?

:alien: :alien: :alien:
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Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by cappuccino »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:02 pm the time of the Buddha?
This is still the time of the Buddha


This is still the Iron Age
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by Coëmgenu »

cappuccino wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:14 pm
Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:15 pm even hedonists for when desires are fulfilled.
That’s because they are temporarily without desire
The ancient Greeks who coined Western version of the "gold-silver-bonze(-iron)" paradigm are all dead due them being ancient.

If they were still around, they'd call this "the Plastic Age."
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:45 pm If they were still around
Time is slow……
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by Coëmgenu »

Ceisiwr wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:02 pm Does anyone know of any academic books, articles, videos whatever which discuss how nibbāna was likely used and understood by non-Buddhists during the time of the Buddha? For example Brahmins, Jains, Ājīvika etc.
"History" is a ripped-up manuscript with most of the pieces missing. History, metaphorically-speaking, is the Dead Sea Scrolls.

AFAIK, Buddhists are the first to use the term "Nirvana" systematically as a term for salvation in their texts.

But, as you point out, in those very texts, older groups are depicted as using the term "Nirvana" as a descriptor for salvation according to their various views of salvation. I'm not well-read in Jain literature, so I can't comment on if they use the term systematically or not, but most of these others sects who are depicted as using it have not had their literature survive to the present day. Or, if their teachings later became literature, it was a different stage of evolution that used different terminologies (such as, for an example, the difference in terminologies employed in the sutras and abhidharmas). Those perspectives spoken of, simply put, seem to have never entered into "history" firsthand (either as literature or as preserved oral retention). We've only the secondhand attestation of them as they appear in Buddhist literature.

Maybe the Jains make extensive use of it? They seem to have a diverse set of words for their soteriological endgoal, but all of them refer to a Siddhaloka ("world of the Saints").

If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, I'd love to be corrected concerning this, provided that I am actually wrong.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: Iron Age Nibbāna

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:02 am "History" is a ripped-up manuscript with most of the pieces missing.
Once, monks, there was a teacher named Araka …

Now at that time, monks, the human life span was 60,000 years, with girls marriageable at 500.

Araka's Teaching
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