Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

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thepea
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by thepea »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:27 pm
thepea wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:24 pm His organization is done as far as I’m concerned, they have morphed into a leftist religion.
So is this your final word on the matter?

We live in hope... :smile:
Does it trouble you?
No.... it’s not even close to my final word on this.
Do you feel the shift Sam?
You are not safe, keep that topic locked finger of yours warm.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Sam Vara »

thepea wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:05 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:27 pm
thepea wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:24 pm His organization is done as far as I’m concerned, they have morphed into a leftist religion.
So is this your final word on the matter?

We live in hope... :smile:
Does it trouble you?
No.... it’s not even close to my final word on this.
Do you feel the shift Sam?
You are not safe, keep that topic locked finger of yours warm.
I suppose it is a bit troubling why someone should post the same stuff, month after month, asking questions that nobody here could possibly answer. It never seems to do any good, because nothing has changed. It's a bit redolent of the story of Kisagotami carrying her dead child around with her, asking if anyone knew how to revive it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the shift", but you can talk about Vipassana centres until everyone here has glazed over. If you get into the non-dhammic political issues which allegedly caused the changes, however, then topics will indeed be locked, as firmly as a Vipassana centre's door.
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Radix
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Radix »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:55 pmI suppose it is a bit troubling why someone should post the same stuff, month after month, asking questions that nobody here could possibly answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_stages_of_grief

While there are some important problems with this model, it can still be useful to look at someone's response to a critical situation in the context of said model (and its variations). Anger and bargaining seem to be going on right now.

To the point, the way other people respond to someone might be significantly impacting the way that person is processing the situation. In short, others might be making it worse. Forcing acceptance onto that person can make them resist it even more.

asking questions that nobody here could possibly answer
Then a new tactic is in order: Let's all stop trying to answer questions we can't answer.

The real issue is, though, that some posters derive pleasure from engaging this poster, from ridiculing him or from trying to control him. Is anyone willing to forego this pleasure?
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Sam Vara »

Radix wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:39 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:55 pmI suppose it is a bit troubling why someone should post the same stuff, month after month, asking questions that nobody here could possibly answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_stages_of_grief

While there are some important problems with this model, it can still be useful to look at someone's response to a critical situation in the context of said model (and its variations). Anger and bargaining seem to be going on right now.
The important "problem" with this model is that there is zero evidence that it maps reality. Kubler-Ross dreamed up the five stages, without ever undertaking research into what was going on. And was at pains to point out that the stages could be reversed, swapped around, missed out, etc. if the model didn't seem to fit. So I'll stick with Kisagotami.

Another problem is that I have no interest in deciding which psychotherapeutic categories could be applied to a poster here, as such things are not in line with the ToS.

And another problem is that whatever problem there is under discussion, it falls short of what I would normally label as "grief".

But apart from that, it's a fine model, and I hope it enhances understanding.
The real issue is, though, that some posters derive pleasure from engaging this poster, from ridiculing him or from trying to control him. Is anyone willing to forego this pleasure?
After you! Show us how it's done. I have to lag behind a bit due to my moderator's role, but if you've spotted the real issue, then that should be resolved in short order.
thepea
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by thepea »

Radix wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:39 pm
Sam Vara wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:55 pmI suppose it is a bit troubling why someone should post the same stuff, month after month, asking questions that nobody here could possibly answer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_stages_of_grief

While there are some important problems with this model, it can still be useful to look at someone's response to a critical situation in the context of said model (and its variations). Anger and bargaining seem to be going on right now.

To the point, the way other people respond to someone might be significantly impacting the way that person is processing the situation. In short, others might be making it worse. Forcing acceptance onto that person can make them resist it even more.

asking questions that nobody here could possibly answer
Then a new tactic is in order: Let's all stop trying to answer questions we can't answer.

The real issue is, though, that some posters derive pleasure from engaging this poster, from ridiculing him or from trying to control him. Is anyone willing to forego this pleasure?
Finally Radix, you hit the nail on the head.
Yes.... it’s grieving loss or more accurately losses.
For three years life has flipped upside down and there has been exceptional loss experienced from Vipassana centre stuff to family to friends.
I cannot accept the political changes the rest so easily have got on board with and the consequence has been loss.
Yes.... a part of me thinks some will snap out of this and come around to my way of thinking but the reality of the situation points towards this not happening and most remain silent and rooted in to their own thought structures and defence.

It’s the general feel of the conversation that I pay attention to not the answers regarding the topic. In this thread(which seems to have been started about me) I’m looking for the element of compassion to see if there is any here on Dhamma wheel. Your posts have been the closest to what I would call compassion as the rest seem to want to twist the knife in my back being purposefully obtuse. Just like during Covid while shopping maskless or not having a vaccine passport, I will continue to go about my business shielding the negativity and looking for the subtle signs of compassion in and where they arise from. We are all in this together, all perspectives must be heard and acknowledged.
Dhammapardon
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Dhammapardon »

thepea wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:19 pm The dhamma MUST be offered for free. It cannot exclude anyone. If it does it ceases to be dhamma.

Right up till Covid I was part of this community, I had been offered a full time position at the centre as lead maintenance but I could not accept this. There was. O issues as far as I could tell with anyone. Only when I began questioning the direction the centre was going with political Covid did I get any backlash from staff. They refused to discuss or answer my question. Instead they chose to stop communication with me completely.

Which is most likely why Goenka did not pass the torch, and why this organization is not teaching dhamma anymore. Now they are the Vipassana religion.
The Dhamma is offered for free. It excludes no one capable of receiving it. Attachment to a teacher, a way of teaching, a teaching center, the way things were, is not the Dhamma. This is attachment. This is clinging. This leads to suffering. Warm the heart, not the head or fingers.

I'm sorry the center you enjoyed and were a part of for so long has changed into something no longer recognizable to you. May you find another sanctuary with good people soon. 🙏
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
thepea
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by thepea »

Dhammapardon wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:42 pm
thepea wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:19 pm The dhamma MUST be offered for free. It cannot exclude anyone. If it does it ceases to be dhamma.

Right up till Covid I was part of this community, I had been offered a full time position at the centre as lead maintenance but I could not accept this. There was. O issues as far as I could tell with anyone. Only when I began questioning the direction the centre was going with political Covid did I get any backlash from staff. They refused to discuss or answer my question. Instead they chose to stop communication with me completely.

Which is most likely why Goenka did not pass the torch, and why this organization is not teaching dhamma anymore. Now they are the Vipassana religion.
The Dhamma is offered for free. It excludes no one capable of receiving it. Attachment to a teacher, a way of teaching, a teaching center, the way things were, is not the Dhamma. This is attachment. This is clinging. This leads to suffering. Warm the heart, not the head or fingers.

I'm sorry the center you enjoyed and were a part of for so long has changed into something no longer recognizable to you. May you find another sanctuary with good people soon. 🙏
Would you give up your home to thieves because they asked you to?
Oh no, this one is a battle to the death. This one is principal and if it takes a few lifetimes, so be it.
This new normal is a HARD NO, I will NEVER accept this. They will be masked until my last breath, and if they ever drop the mandates I’ll be in there to dismantle it from the inside. I’m watching them and contacting them and will continue to for as long as required. They will have no peace.
Dhammapardon
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Dhammapardon »

thepea wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 am Would you give up your home to thieves because they asked you to?
Oh no, this one is a battle to the death. This one is principal and if it takes a few lifetimes, so be it.
This new normal is a HARD NO, I will NEVER accept this. They will be masked until my last breath, and if they ever drop the mandates I’ll be in there to dismantle it from the inside. I’m watching them and contacting them and will continue to for as long as required. They will have no peace.
I don't know until it happens to me. What I do know is I want to end my own suffering and to do that I have to let go of what causes it. I don't know what you should do. You know better than me. I do wish you find peace in what path you decide to take.
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
thepea
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by thepea »

Dhammapardon wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:13 am
thepea wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 am Would you give up your home to thieves because they asked you to?
Oh no, this one is a battle to the death. This one is principal and if it takes a few lifetimes, so be it.
This new normal is a HARD NO, I will NEVER accept this. They will be masked until my last breath, and if they ever drop the mandates I’ll be in there to dismantle it from the inside. I’m watching them and contacting them and will continue to for as long as required. They will have no peace.
I don't know until it happens to me. What I do know is I want to end my own suffering and to do that I have to let go of what causes it. I don't know what you should do. You know better than me. I do wish you find peace in what path you decide to take.
There is peace. This is strong determination. As long as it takes I am committed to whatever it takes to end this. If it takes a few lifetimes, so be it. I CANNOT ACCEPT THIS NEW NORMAL and I will hold them hostage to their mandates because they know the moment they open the door I will be there and I will dismantle it from the inside.
This is not anger or lack of peace, this is a dis iplined conscious commitment I made April 2021.
Dhammapardon
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Dhammapardon »

thepea wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:22 am There is peace. This is strong determination. As long as it takes I am committed to whatever it takes to end this. If it takes a few lifetimes, so be it. I CANNOT ACCEPT THIS NEW NORMAL and I will hold them hostage to their mandates because they know the moment they open the door I will be there and I will dismantle it from the inside.
This is not anger or lack of peace, this is a dis iplined conscious commitment I made April 2021.
So you do this and achieve your goal. Then what?
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Mumfie »

thepea wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 am Oh no, this one is a battle to the death.
But may I ask who is fighting this battle?

When I started this thread I was under the impression (though I'm not quite sure why) that though disaffected Canadian Goenkaists were a minority, they nonetheless at least constituted a plurality of persons. Hence my phrase "righteous remnant".

Recent posts by you, however, are giving me the impression that there isn't in fact a righteous remnant; there's just you, and everybody else is quite content with the changes made by the Goenka organization in Canada.

Could you confirm which impression is correct?
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
thepea
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by thepea »

Dhammapardon wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:30 am
thepea wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:22 am There is peace. This is strong determination. As long as it takes I am committed to whatever it takes to end this. If it takes a few lifetimes, so be it. I CANNOT ACCEPT THIS NEW NORMAL and I will hold them hostage to their mandates because they know the moment they open the door I will be there and I will dismantle it from the inside.
This is not anger or lack of peace, this is a dis iplined conscious commitment I made April 2021.
So you do this and achieve your goal. Then what?
Then my children(the innocent) have a place to reside with opportunity free from trespass to their property.
thepea
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by thepea »

Mumfie wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:17 am
thepea wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 12:03 am Oh no, this one is a battle to the death.
But may I ask who is fighting this battle?

When I started this thread I was under the impression (though I'm not quite sure why) that though disaffected Canadian Goenkaists were a minority, they nonetheless at least constituted a plurality of persons. Hence my phrase "righteous remnant".

Recent posts by you, however, are giving me the impression that there isn't in fact a righteous remnant; there's just you, and everybody else is quite content with the changes made by the Goenka organization in Canada.

Could you confirm which impression is correct?
No, I cannot confirm anything from Goenkoists in Canada.
But.... if it’s anything like my sons hockey they are ALL much happier with these dystopian mandates lifted, and by the looks of it 98% of parents and fans are happier also. I can only imagine that this is also the case within the Goenka organization.
But they want masks and testing and vaccines to protect their bubble from me, fine..... I’ll make certain they have that forever. The second they relax I’ll be there to confront them face to face and systematically remove the cancer from inside. This is my strong determination, I didn’t start this war but this one I will NEVER concede, until victorious. Others can forget and move on, I will keep this going until certain aspects and individuals are brought to light and the darkness eliminated.
It’s shifting.
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Dhammapardon »

Last edited by Dhammapardon on Sun Dec 04, 2022 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
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Mumfie
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Re: Could South Korea be the Promised Land for Goenka's Righteous Remnant?

Post by Mumfie »

thepea wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:41 am No, I cannot confirm anything from Goenkoists in Canada.
Your post does in fact confirm my later impression that yours is a lone battle.
“Hobgoblin, nor foul fiend,
Shall daunt his spirit;”
John Bunyan, Pilgrim’s Progress II)
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