Doubts on greed, hatred, delusion?

[RobertoAnces]

I don't have access to an ajahn so I'm asking here for everyone to answer what they understand by delusion, if you want to help.

I've been practicing for a few years and well at first it was hard for me to see the greed, hatred and delusion. Right now I think it is more or less evident in my mind but I have doubts with delusion.

I understand, or so I believe, the meaning of greed, is to want or desire something that you do not have, food, a woman (sex), ... I see the pressure that it generates, as it appears at first as something small or insignificant, the beginning of an intention, and it grows like a snowball, how the mind goes from a neutral state to a state of obsessed mind, how it generates pressure and alters thoughts patterns (by instance if your are lustful more thoughts about sex arise in your mind) and how in the end you can't take this pressure anymore and you end up giving into it, or simply as it arrived, it disappears and is replaced by something else...
Hatred is simply the other side of the coin, not wanting something that you do have, a pain, tiredness, hunger, illness, an obligation or a task to do...

But with delusion I have seen a couple of interpretations in various teachers and both seem correct or have some logic to me.

• One is delusion as a distraction (Ajahn Nanyamoli uses this), simply the fact of wanting to distract yourself because you are bored, or because there is something you don't want (hatred) or do want (greed) that pressures you and the only way to escape the pressure or pain that produces you is distraction, instead of observing the pressure, what you want or not, what it implies, that is, instead of enduring and practicing to understand the dhamma and free yourself, you simply look the other way as you cannot hold the pressure, you distract yourself ...
• Another explanation is delusion, as ignorance, basically I, me, mine, ... appropriating the body, thoughts, emotions, moods... that is to say, that sensation that arises of possession, this thought is mine, or this pain is mine, or this emotion mine ... in contrast with "abandoning" your body, your feelings, your mood ...
• The third option would be that both are correct, that it is just as bad to get distracted by ideas, imagination, videos, music ... when you cannot bear the current state of mind than to identify and appropriate the aggregates.

What do you think, what is delusion for you and what is the way to abandon it? and greed and hatred if you think I'm wrong in my practice.

Any link to text, book or video that explains clearly?

Sorry for my bad English but I speak Spanish, metta for everyone .

[Ceisiwr]

I don't have access to an ajahn so I'm asking here for everyone to answer what they understand by delusion, if you want to help.

I've been practicing for a few years and well at first it was hard for me to see the greed, hatred and delusion. Right now I think it is more or less evident in my mind but I have doubts with delusion.

I understand, or so I believe, the meaning of greed, is to want or desire something that you do not have, food, a woman (sex), ... I see the pressure that it generates, as it appears at first as something small or insignificant, the beginning of an intention, and it grows like a snowball, how the mind goes from a neutral state to a state of obsessed mind, how it generates pressure and alters thoughts patterns (by instance if your are lustful more thoughts about sex arise in your mind) and how in the end you can't take this pressure anymore and you end up giving into it, or simply as it arrived, it disappears and is replaced by something else...
Hatred is simply the other side of the coin, not wanting something that you do have, a pain, tiredness, hunger, illness, an obligation or a task to do...

But with delusion I have seen a couple of interpretations in various teachers and both seem correct or have some logic to me.

• One is delusion as a distraction (Ajahn Nanyamoli uses this), simply the fact of wanting to distract yourself because you are bored, or because there is something you don't want (hatred) or do want (greed) that pressures you and the only way to escape the pressure or pain that produces you is distraction, instead of observing the pressure, what you want or not, what it implies, that is, instead of enduring and practicing to understand the dhamma and free yourself, you simply look the other way as you cannot hold the pressure, you distract yourself ...
• Another explanation is delusion, as ignorance, basically I, me, mine, ... appropriating the body, thoughts, emotions, moods... that is to say, that sensation that arises of possession, this thought is mine, or this pain is mine, or this emotion mine ... in contrast with "abandoning" your body, your feelings, your mood ...
• The third option would be that both are correct, that it is just as bad to get distracted by ideas, imagination, videos, music ... when you cannot bear the current state of mind than to identify and appropriate the aggregates.

What do you think, what is delusion for you and what is the way to abandon it? and greed and hatred if you think I'm wrong in my practice.

Any link to text, book or video that explains clearly?

Sorry for my bad English but I speak Spanish, metta for everyone .

Delusion and ignorance are, I believe, synonyms. Ignorance is not understanding the four noble truths, or to not see impermanence, dukkha and not-self. It is to see permanence, sukha and self in experience. In short, we could say it is not seeing dependent origination.

[Sam Vara]

Personally, I think the second bullet point - the taking of things as I, mine, or self - is closest to the mark and most fruitful for practice. But it might help to expand the concept a little, and to see it as wrongly apprehending things, or not seeing them with wisdom, as they really are. For example, seeing the beautiful in that which is not beautiful, or the permanent or certain in that which is impermanent or uncertain, etc. Here is Ajahn Sucitto on delusion regarding our intentions:

Delusion is most difficult because we can’t really see it. That is why one of our main trainings is to continually deepen and strengthen the power and quality of attention and intention. In this way we can penetrate into the places in the mind that are often misted over, and where blind habits, casualness, impulsiveness, or recklessness take over. We start becoming more attentive to what is happening. Nothing is inconsequential. It’s all worth attending to. We can do this, it’s really good to know that we can do it, and it has good effects on the mind.

https://ajahnsucitto.org/articles/the-u ... o-freedom/

And I have always liked this little talk from Ajahn Thanissaro which touches on the topic:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... ions.html

Welcome to Dhamma Wheel, Roberto!

Your English is excellent!

[Ceisiwr]

Your English is excellent!

I agree. Really good.

[ToVincent]

LOBHA - DOSA - MOHA
Etymological & Suttas references:
https://justpaste.it/15dxx
.
.

[sunnat]

Delusion is a result of not seeing things as they really are while being attached to the opinion that ‘as things are seen is how they really are’ and not understanding that things are seen through a filter that blocks and distorts the correct view of things. In other words both are correct.

As very few are enlightened it is reasonable to take all personal opinions as being delusions born of ignorance, starting with the delusion that it is mine.

We live in a world full of deluded beings, constructed for deluded beings by deluded beings. In this world, law, potentially, ideally used by relatively wise beings, is the great ruler while in the world of pathwalkers The Dhamma is the ultimate Law that leads one out of delusions. Just continue to practice and let go of needing things to be different.

[RobertoAnces]

Ok, thank you all, I was confused, this video of NN confused me:



He is talking about the four noble truths but he starts to talk about craving and then said "greed, aversion, delusion". I assumed that he was talking about greed, hatred, delusion on the noble truths, and delusion didn't match with my understanding of delusion, but it was very coherent in the context he was talking. A confusion that has troubled me for quite some time. I thought he understood MOHA as distraction which may have some logic but not too much.

So it's not a confusion on the teachings of NN but my fault.

[pegembara]

Based on the 10 fetters model, the non-returner is one who has eliminated greed and hatred which are part of the first five fetters.
I would say that the remaining 5 would fall under the general category of delusion. For example the wish for some kind of existence after death, not seeing that the conceit "I am" is due to ignorance that any kind of existence anywhere is still dukkha.

The Pali canon's Sutta Pitaka identifies ten "fetters of becoming":

1. belief in a self (Pali: sakkāya-diṭṭhi)[4]
2. doubt or uncertainty, especially about the Buddha's awakeness and nine supermundane consciousnesses (vicikicchā)[5]
3. attachment to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa)[6]
4. sensual desire (kāmacchando)[7]
5. ill will (vyāpādo or byāpādo)[8]
6. lust for material existence, lust for material rebirth (rūparāgo)[9]
7. lust for immaterial existence, lust for rebirth in a formless realm (arūparāgo)[10]
8. conceit (māna)[11][12]
9. restlessness (uddhacca)[13]
10.ignorance (avijjā)[14]

[Radix]

What do you think, what is delusion for you and what is the way to abandon it?

From what I understood, in a specifically Buddhist context, ignorance/delusion refers specifically to ignorance of the Four Noble Truths.

Search ATI for the keywords "ignorance of the four noble truths" and you'll get a number of essays disccussing this.

[SarathW]

What do you think, what is a delusion for you, and what is the way to abandon it?

Simply abandon ignorance by following the Noble Eightfold Path.
So not knowing the Four Noble truths is ignorance.

Avijja Sutta: Ignorance

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/ques ... '%2C%20etc.

[mjaviem]

The delusion in seeing things as "This is good for me" (or the opposite "this is bad for me").