Do you have any examples Bhante, without mentioning names and whatnot?
‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
Yes. Many.
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
You said "without mentioning names", right?
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
Yes. I had in mind examples of how teachers have lead others into more suffering, so examples of behaviour or teachings rather than names.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
The lack of hiri and otappa should be a warning signal. Shouldn't be too difficult to spot if one spends enough time and not be one of the guru-worshiping types. They are overrepresented among politicians and business personalities. Reverend Moon, David Koresh etc.
Maybe a touch or more of narcissism. The need to be worshipped.
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/fea ... differenceDo They Have a Conscience?
A key difference between a psychopath and a sociopath is whether he has a conscience, the little voice inside that lets us know when we’re doing something wrong, says L. Michael Tompkins, EdD. He's a psychologist at the Sacramento County Mental Health Treatment Center.
A psychopath doesn’t have a conscience. If he lies to you so he can steal your money, he won’t feel any moral qualms, though he may pretend to. He may observe others and then act the way they do so he’s not “found out,” Tompkins says.
A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it’s weak. They may know that taking your money is wrong, and they might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop their behavior.
Both lack empathy, the ability to stand in someone else’s shoes and understand how they feel. But a psychopath has less regard for others, says Aaron Kipnis, PhD, author of The Midas Complex. Someone with this personality type sees others as objects he can use for his own benefit.
It’s not easy to spot a psychopath. They can be intelligent, charming, and good at mimicking emotions. They may pretend to be interested in you, but in reality, they probably don’t care.
“They’re skilled actors whose sole mission is to manipulate people for personal gain,” Tompkins says.
Sociopaths are less able to play along. They make it plain that they’re not interested in anyone but themselves. They often blame others and have excuses for their behavior.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
I've dealt that in the article, supplemented by the video.
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
As you quoted:
It’s not easy to spot a psychopath. They can be intelligent, charming, and good at mimicking emotions. They may pretend to be interested in you, but in reality, they probably don’t care.
“They’re skilled actors whose sole mission is to manipulate people for personal gain,” Tompkins says.
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
the Suttas are plenty of episodes in where deceptions and illusions are used like strategies to help to arise the Truth and to dispel ignorance. This is not the same as lying, which is an intention to falsifying or misrepresent the Truth. I believe in the Vinaya this is defined in a similar way, sure you knows this point much better to clarify it.
IMHO I understand the core in these episodes is when Sila is finally linked with the Truth instead with the perceived Reality. Moral is not directly related with falsifying the perceived Reality but the Truth. In fact, when we repeat to ourselves "this is not me, this is not mine, this is not my self" we are deceiving to the liar or ignorant inside us.
Not so different to deceive the children to help them or to avoid they can be harmed.
To say "strategy of deception" can sounds harder than reading "skillfull means", although the difference between both only will arise at the end.
What do you think about this sense?
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TRobinson465
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Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
While it's true psychopaths should be avoided as Buddhist teachers, or any teacher or leader really, its definitely not the only thing you should be looking out for.
Plenty of western Buddhist teachers teach things that harm thier students, such as that abortion before 3 months is not killing, or that the next world is just an intricate metaphor or that the Buddha was just a philosopher like socrates (despite the Buddha literally specifically saying that these 2 latter beliefs are wrong views and lead to hell). I don't think most teachers that teach these things teach them purposely to harm thier students. They legitimately believe the nonsense because they believe true Buddhism is whatever aligns with their preconceived view of the world and that anything that contradicts thier worldview is just forged suttas and mistranslations. Arrogance perhaps but not psychopathy if they actually beleive it.
And as I stated in the ASPD thread. Hitler was not even technically a psychopath by DSM standards. So it's not like it's only psychopaths you should be wary of.
viewtopic.php?p=695715#p695715
Follow the kalama sutta.
Plenty of western Buddhist teachers teach things that harm thier students, such as that abortion before 3 months is not killing, or that the next world is just an intricate metaphor or that the Buddha was just a philosopher like socrates (despite the Buddha literally specifically saying that these 2 latter beliefs are wrong views and lead to hell). I don't think most teachers that teach these things teach them purposely to harm thier students. They legitimately believe the nonsense because they believe true Buddhism is whatever aligns with their preconceived view of the world and that anything that contradicts thier worldview is just forged suttas and mistranslations. Arrogance perhaps but not psychopathy if they actually beleive it.
And as I stated in the ASPD thread. Hitler was not even technically a psychopath by DSM standards. So it's not like it's only psychopaths you should be wary of.
viewtopic.php?p=695715#p695715
Follow the kalama sutta.
When you know for yourselves that, "These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness" — then you should enter & remain in them.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
In any case, did the 2 arahants deceive Devadatta?zerotime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 4:18 pmthe Suttas are plenty of episodes in where deceptions and illusions are used like strategies to help to arise the Truth and to dispel ignorance. This is not the same as lying, which is an intention to falsifying or misrepresent the Truth. I believe in the Vinaya this is defined in a similar way, sure you knows this point much better to clarify it.
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
Me neither but I find pegembara's quotes very relevant. Besides, I wonder how possible it is to fall into the influence of a psycopath for someone who pretends nothing from anyone and takes refuge only in the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha as a whole.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
As I recall the story, they didn't try to make him believe anything. He himself (out of his own conceit, I suppose) believed that.
Re: ‘Buddhist’ Teachers to Watch Out For
There has been many Buddhist cults. They all very successfully attract people who take refuge in BDS.