In which suttas does the Buddha recommend against getting involved in politics and social issues?

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zan
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Re: In which suttas does the Buddha recommend against getting involved in politics and social issues?

Post by zan »

SDC wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 5:17 pm
zan wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:31 pm As to the suttas, though, the Buddha was very emphatic that we should not waste this rare human life, and should practice in line with his rules and suggestions, so people who decide to be Buddhist and follow the suttas, but decide to not really try to follow the rules and reach sotapatti, are experiencing some serious cognitive dissonance.
But then they didn’t actually decide to follow the instructions found in the suttas. They decided to affiliate - to identify themselves as “Buddhist”.
Yes, I completely agree, that's what I meant when I said:
zan wrote:I don't think everyone who identifies as Buddhist is primarily concerned with sotapatti, which is why I didn't say that. That would be a ridiculous claim for me to make, because the majority of Buddhists are Mahayana, which holds that Nirvana and Samsara are the same thing, and/or other positions that do not disallow involvement with political and social issues, nor even necessarily necessitate practice, nor following rules of any kind. Further, of course there are plenty of other Buddhists as well who simply aren't trying to follow the rules, or have reinterpreted them however is convenient, because they don't take it that seriously, for whatever reason.
And
zan wrote:As to the rest of your reply: well said! I completely agree. People who truly are dedicated to sotapatti must follow the Buddha's instructions to not get involved in social and political issues. Those who aren't, don't need to, as not following rules, meant to lead one to a goal, that one is not trying to reach, is not an issue.
You're certainly correct, any Buddhists are just in it for the identity and an infatuation with the overall idea of it.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.


"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
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SDC
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Re: In which suttas does the Buddha recommend against getting involved in politics and social issues?

Post by SDC »

zan wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:31 pm
You're certainly correct, any Buddhists are just in it for the identity and an infatuation with the overall idea of it.
Having said all that, there is no doubt that some of those who may only be going as far as to affiliate, still offer invaluable, amazing and beneficial support to the community. That is not only very meritorious, but the rest of us benefit from their generosity as well. So, it is not so cut and dry. It seems that those who may not go past affiliation still play a key role in the continuance of the community, and therefore have a seat at the table. Their tendency to remain with the worldly, whether through political or social involvement (or any other), is a personal decision that need not become a public problem. Especially not for those who may be taking the Dhamma much more seriously.

Remember, the concern that others are not being sincere enough in their practice is just as worldly as being concerned about climate change. It is external to the work of development.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
sunnat
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Post by sunnat »

All this is very nice and theoretical but given it’s practice that results in progress it behoves to consider the totality of any of the innumerable real and potential pathwalker’s accumulated kamma resultants which may or may not result in further kammas and their resultants depending on conditions. Gradual training will always involve learning by doing what is and what is not wholesome. Intitially, for the averagely warped uninstructed bag of piss and shit, such and such actions like killing, stealing, lying, abusing and alcohol/drug fuelled heedlessness need to be tempered. Various kind and peaceful social and political actions may serve to awaken the individual to causes and effects. It’s a long path. For many it simply starts with doing something good. For those in training who loose their footing sometimes or often getting back on track can involve doing good or at least not doing bad. Depending on inclinations sometimes that good can be in the social political arena.

Keep in mind the basics “abandon the bad, nurture the good and purify the mind”. It doesn’t matter if you are a capitalist, revolutionary socialist or whatever. Train accordingly and you are facing in the right direction. Speed of progress, including eventual renunciate status, depends.

When reaching full self realisation Buddha considered not getting involved with the world but in the end decided to. From then on he continued to fashion the sangha community with the state of the world in mind. This is necessarily a socio political endeavour.

When Guatama became The Buddha he said he had spent many lifetimes seeking the builder of the house and it was only that night, with in-sight, that he found him. Lifetimes being a seeker, a king, whatever, a political/social animal. This kamma and hence resultants conditioned that moment.

The beneficial results of the letting go of worldly connections including attachments to family is understood by the renunciate. The lay supporter is advised to always check that actions accord with the five precepts. Gradually actions become one’s that always incline towards the goal.

Will one be a socially involved, political being in the next lives?

“Don’t do bad things, do good things and purify the mind.”

Like a big tree that leans in one direction, should it fall it falls in the direction it leans, even if a strong wind blows in the other direction. Be a big tree leaning on the right direction, towards the Dhamma, in time, lifetimes, the walk to the goal will happen.
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