In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

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wenjaforever
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In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by wenjaforever »

Or is it Mahayana source? I've only read it on Wikipedia :(
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
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Sam Vara
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Re: In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by Sam Vara »

It might be MN 28 you are thinking of.

https://suttacentral.net/mn28/en/bodhi? ... ight=false

The elements are "provoked", and are described as becoming overwhelmingly powerful and then dwindling away to nothing.
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Nicolas
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Re: In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by Nicolas »

In the Visuddhimagga:
Dhammanando wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:27 am It’s described in two places in the Visuddhimagga. First, briefly and in verse in the description of the defining of the four elements (ch. XI 102). Second, in a detailed prose exposition in the description of recollecting past lives (ch. XIII 29-35).
(I'd extend the latter to ch. XIII 29-65.)

The destruction by fire is also in the Sattasūriya Sutta.
pegembara
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Re: In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by pegembara »

Who would have thought the literal ending of the world has been predicted over 2500 years ago without the aid of telescopes?
The same applies to planetary systems, galaxies etc.
All that is born has to die.
Mendicants, who would ever think or believe that this earth and Sineru, king of mountains, will burn and crumble and be no more, except for one who has seen the truth?

https://suttacentral.net/mn28/en/bodhi? ... ight=false
“Now there comes a time when the external water element is disturbed. It carries away villages, towns, cities, districts, and countries. There comes a time when the waters in the great ocean sink down a hundred leagues, two hundred leagues, three hundred leagues, four hundred leagues, five hundred leagues, six hundred leagues, seven hundred leagues. There comes a time when the waters in the great ocean stand seven palms deep, six palms deep…two palms deep, only a palm deep. There comes a time when the waters in the great ocean stand seven fathoms deep, six fathoms deep…two fathoms deep, only a fathom deep. There comes a time when the waters in the great ocean stand half a fathom deep, only waist deep, only knee deep, only ankle deep. There comes a time when the waters in the great ocean are not enough to wet even the joint of a finger. When even this external water element, great as it is, is seen to be impermanent, subject to destruction, disappearance, and change, what of this body, which is clung to by craving and lasts but a while? There can be no considering that as ‘I’ or ‘mine’ or ‘I am.’

https://suttacentral.net/mn28/en/bodhi? ... ight=false
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
wenjaforever
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Re: In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by wenjaforever »

Nicolas wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 12:04 am In the Visuddhimagga:
Dhammanando wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:27 am It’s described in two places in the Visuddhimagga. First, briefly and in verse in the description of the defining of the four elements (ch. XI 102). Second, in a detailed prose exposition in the description of recollecting past lives (ch. XIII 29-35).
(I'd extend the latter to ch. XIII 29-65.)

The destruction by fire is also in the Sattasūriya Sutta.
Ah thank you. So the water and wind destructions are not found in the suttapitaka or even abhidhamma? Is it Mahayana?
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
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Nicolas
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Re: In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by Nicolas »

wenjaforever wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:25 am So the water and wind destructions are not found in the suttapitaka or even abhidhamma? Is it Mahayana?
Well, the Visuddhimagga is a Theravada text, even if not in the Tipitaka.

I suspect these destructions by fire, water and air are mentioned elsewhere in the commentaries, but I don't have a source.

(P.S. Here's the link to the full extract from the Visuddhimagga.)
wenjaforever
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Re: In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by wenjaforever »

Nicolas wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:18 pm
Well, the Visuddhimagga is a Theravada text, even if not in the Tipitaka.

I suspect these destructions by fire, water and air are mentioned elsewhere in the commentaries, but I don't have a source.

(P.S. Here's the link to the full extract from the Visuddhimagga.)
Yes I have that impression too. It says that it's written in 5th century CE in Sri Lanka as a commentary of the abhidhamma commentary. So it's probably somewhere in abhidhamma. Thanks.
money is worthless toilet paper • the tongue has no bone (a person might say one thing but it cannot be further from the truth) • you cannot teach a goat math as in you cannot teach the dhamma to a dumb person
blightmaster
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Re: In what sutta are the wind, water and fire destruction mentioned?

Post by blightmaster »

I think the basis of this is DN 27 agana sutta.
you're not a shape shifter, you're a mindless ghoul in previous life and you will fall again • those who draw the sword die by the sword, but oh wait you're too lame to even use a sword
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