According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
Milinda
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According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Milinda »








According to him, Buddhism is lost in translations, so Tathagatha never denied the "self" or the "soul". What do you think?
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cappuccino
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by cappuccino »

Milinda wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:47 pm Buddhism is lost in translations, so Tathagatha never denied the "self" or the "soul". What do you think?
Correct


To deny self would be annihilationism


Not affirm self either
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Mahabrahma
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Mahabrahma »

You can meditate in Anatta if you want to.

You can leave your self behind.

But if you don't uncling to a self and if you don't uncling to a self.

You're still grasping at something that lacks basic Emptiness.

Realizing True Maitri is difficult.

So be a friend of mine!

:rolleye:
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
Milinda
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Milinda »

cappuccino wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:52 pm
Milinda wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:47 pm Buddhism is lost in translations, so Tathagatha never denied the "self" or the "soul". What do you think?
Correct


To deny self would be annihilationism


Not affirm self either
He also says that the Buddha never denied an atman.
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cappuccino
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by cappuccino »

Milinda wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:46 am He also says that the Buddha never denied an atman.
Because to deny it would imply annihilation
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Milinda »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 1:05 pm
Milinda wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:46 am He also says that the Buddha never denied an atman.
Because to deny it would imply annihilation
Yeah, but according to this guy.
Due to the miss interpretation of Anata and by the fault to sectarianism what is call buddhism today has become Ucchedavada (anhionalist) de facto, but not the iure so to speak. A via negativa.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Coëmgenu »

IMO, he's a Ātmavādin. Ātmavādins who identify with the Buddha's teaching need him to be an Ātmavādin too.

It's all a strategy to try to avoid the inevitable cognitive dissonance inherent with being both a believer in the eternity of the individual and the Buddha's Dharma.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by DNS »

I'm sure we've had some previous topics on this youtuber. His name is Ken. What is his last name? Or maybe someone knows where the previous topics are here in DW?

He mentions some Sutta references, but it sounds like he is using his translations and/or interpretations. I find it unlikely that PTS, Sujato, Bodhi, Thanissaro, et al, all got it wrong.
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cappuccino
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:00 pm It's all a strategy to try to avoid the inevitable cognitive dissonance inherent with being both a believer in the eternity of the individual and the Buddha's Dharma.
We already exist in eternity


There is no cognitive dissonance
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cappuccino
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by cappuccino »

DNS wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:19 pm I find it unlikely that PTS, Sujato, Bodhi, Ṭhānissaro, et al, all got it wrong.
Ṭhānissaro has it right, Sujato not
Last edited by cappuccino on Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Coëmgenu
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Coëmgenu »

cappuccino wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:44 pm
Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:00 pm It's all a strategy to try to avoid the inevitable cognitive dissonance inherent with being both a believer in the eternity of the individual and the Buddha's Dharma.
We already exist in eternity


There is no cognitive dissonance
I'm sure it feels good to tell yourself and others that.
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:47 pm I'm sure it feels good to tell yourself and others that.
That we exist?
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Coëmgenu
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Coëmgenu »

"In eternity!"
What is the Uncreated?
Sublime & free, what is that obscured Eternity?
It is the Undying, the Bright, the Isle.
It is an Ocean, a Secret: Reality.
Both life and oblivion, it is Nirvāṇa.
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cappuccino
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by cappuccino »

Coëmgenu wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:48 pm "In eternity!"
So far
Milinda
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Re: According to this gentelman all Buddhism is wrong due to miss-understood about Anata

Post by Milinda »

DNS wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:19 pm I'm sure we've had some previous topics on this youtuber. His name is Ken. What is his last name? Or maybe someone knows where the previous topics are here in DW?

He mentions some Sutta references, but it sounds like he is using his translations and/or interpretations. I find it unlikely that PTS, Sujato, Bodhi, Thanissaro, et al, all got it wrong.
Image
He is a platonist,

So he tries to fix that Vedic conception, very similar to the greek charioter from PLato myth, very similar to the indian one: https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book ... 45206.html

आत्मानँ रथितं विद्धि शरीरँ रथमेव तु ।
बुद्धिं तु सारथिं विद्धि मनः प्रग्रहमेव च ॥ ३ ॥

ātmānam̐ rathitaṃ viddhi śarīram̐ rathameva tu |
buddhiṃ tu sārathiṃ viddhi manaḥ pragrahameva ca

3. Know the atman as the lord of the chariot, the body as only the chariot, know also intelligence as the driver; know the minds as the reins.

Shankara’s Commentary:
Com.—Here a chariot is imagined for the atman, conditioned in Samsara, entitled to acquire knowledge and perform Karma for attaining emancipation and for travelling in Samsara, as a means to reach both. Know the atman, who is the enjoyer of the fruits of Karma and is in the bondage of Samsara, to be the lord of the chariot. Know the body to be verily the chariot, because like a chariot the body is drawn by the senses occupying the place of horses. Know also the intelligence to be the driver, furnished with the capacity for determination, because the body is mainly guided by the intelligence, as the chariot is mainly guided by the driver; for, everything done by the body is generally done by the intelligence. Know the mind with its characteristics of volition, doubt, etc., to be the reins; for, the senses, such as the ear, perform their functions when grasped by the mind as horses by the reins.
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