Pain during meditation.

[DeadBuddha]

Hi.

I am practicing Pa Auk's anapanasati technique (basically, it is to constantly focus on the conceptual breath at the tip of the nose/on the upperlip).
I am trying to reach the concentration of absorption.

However, when I meditate, my eyes tend to hurt. I think it is because I am unconsciously trying to use my physical eyes to look at the conceptual breath. How can I stop this?

Also, it is possible that my pain is due to the fact that I am putting too much effort into concentrating. How do I find the right amount of effort (not too much, not too little)?

Thanks in advance.

May all beings develop the Dharma Eye.

[santa100]

However, when I meditate, my eyes tend to hurt. I think it is because I am unconsciously trying to use my physical eyes to look at the conceptual breath. How can I stop this?

Then you'd already know how to fix it. Don't use your eyes to look at the tip of your nose, just FEEL the in-out breaths brushing the nostril gates. If you have to focus your eyes, simply maintain a 45 degree downward gaze in front of you.

[DeadBuddha]

However, when I meditate, my eyes tend to hurt. I think it is because I am unconsciously trying to use my physical eyes to look at the conceptual breath. How can I stop this?

Then you'd already know how to fix it. Don't use your eyes to look at the tip of your nose, just FEEL the in-out breaths brushing the nostril gates. If you have to focus your eyes, simply maintain a 45 degree downward gaze in front of you.

Thank you for your answer.

The problem is that as soon as I try to make a little more effort to concentrate, my eyes automatically start to contract. That is, if I start to stop contracting my eyes, then my concentration automatically drops (without dropping to 0). Do you see what I mean? Maybe eye twitching is a sign of overexertion. What do you think?

[santa100]

Thank you for your answer.

The problem is that as soon as I try to make a little more effort to concentrate, my eyes automatically start to contract. That is, if I start to stop contracting my eyes, then my concentration automatically drops (without dropping to 0). Do you see what I mean? Maybe eye twitching is a sign of overexertion. What do you think?

Then try not to immediately close your eyes at the beginning of the meditation session. It'll take some experimenting, like relaxing your eyes with them being half-closed while maintaining a 45 degree downward gaze in front of you. Once you're able to relax them to some sufficient degree, you can close them while Feeling the in-out breaths making contact with the nostril gates. As far as losing your concentration, you could experiment with counting breaths, ex: breathe in and silently note in-1, breathe out and silently note out-1, breathe in and silently note in-2, then out-2, so on and so forth until in-10, and out-10. Then cycle back to 1 thru 10, 1 thru 10, .... then drop the counting once you've regained your concentration.

[nirodh27]

Hi.

I am practicing Pa Auk's anapanasati technique (basically, it is to constantly focus on the conceptual breath at the tip of the nose/on the upperlip).
I am trying to reach the concentration of absorption.

However, when I meditate, my eyes tend to hurt. I think it is because I am unconsciously trying to use my physical eyes to look at the conceptual breath. How can I stop this?

Also, it is possible that my pain is due to the fact that I am putting too much effort into concentrating. How do I find the right amount of effort (not too much, not too little)?

Thanks in advance.

May all beings develop the Dharma Eye.

You should focus attention, not the eyes since it is a conceptual point. The eyes, even when closed, should be relaxed like when you gaze at 20 feets/6 meters which is the standard techinque to relax the eyes when you use computers. It is the attention that moves. Yes, the eyes will move as a reflex, but the feeling for the eyes should be one of rest.

For the too much effort it is really a balancing act based on your skill and your motivation. In fact, it is easy to concentrate without effort while you are motivated or you are self-confident that you will have success. When I started after a while I followed the advice of Daniel Ingram to "stay with your object like a biting dog" or something like that because my mind was really unruly. Ofc that can cause a lot of problems and it is not certanly a letting-go state, but it can help at the first attempts since it is a form of "crushing mind with mind" telling the mind that you really want to concentrate, just don't use it for prolonged time else it could become a (bad) habit. If you put a lot of effort, I think that you are already strong in faith so that is good, it seems that you don't have the relaxation/sleep problem now (it will probably come btw)

The effort must be balanced with the level of faith and expectations that one have in the single mediation session. Try to be mindful of the level of expectation that you have at the beginning and see how it influences the result. See how also telling yourself that is a marathon and not a 100-meters sprint affects your expectations and effort/restlessness: it should have a calming effect (that again must be balanced and used when you feel that is needed, too much calm can point you to sloth and torpor). Since you concentration on the object should be total, you need to talk to yourself in a way that balances your mind state beforehand: make it an important part of the meditation session to fabricate the correct "middle-way" mindset.

When you will start to get results then your mind will want for concentration (since it is pleasurable), at that time you will see that the mind will naturally be attentive without effort and restlessness. In the middle, there are tons of failures that must be accepted and reviewed after the meditation, try to take notes and review your progress over time. As someone said "there are no bad meditations".

Those are my advice from what I rememeber with my time with this kind of practice, I remember that in "Focused and Fearless" of Shaila Catherine there were many useful advice on how to to the balacing act.

I've written very fast and I don't have time to think about it more, Good Luck!

[DeadBuddha]

Thank you so much for your messages. I will practice your advice.

[Ceisiwr]

Hi.

I am practicing Pa Auk's anapanasati technique (basically, it is to constantly focus on the conceptual breath at the tip of the nose/on the upperlip).
I am trying to reach the concentration of absorption.

However, when I meditate, my eyes tend to hurt. I think it is because I am unconsciously trying to use my physical eyes to look at the conceptual breath. How can I stop this?

Also, it is possible that my pain is due to the fact that I am putting too much effort into concentrating. How do I find the right amount of effort (not too much, not too little)?

Thanks in advance.

May all beings develop the Dharma Eye.

When I meditate I don't stare at the tip of the nose, I just place my awareness there. Generally I have my eyes half open, half shut, and just look at what is directly in front of me (with my gaze downwards). If I need to blink, I blink. Over time though as the mind becomes more tranquil, still and one-pointed my vision starts to fade away, even with the eyes open, and I don't notice if the eyes are tired or not anymore.

[DeadBuddha]

Hi.

I am practicing Pa Auk's anapanasati technique (basically, it is to constantly focus on the conceptual breath at the tip of the nose/on the upperlip).
I am trying to reach the concentration of absorption.

However, when I meditate, my eyes tend to hurt. I think it is because I am unconsciously trying to use my physical eyes to look at the conceptual breath. How can I stop this?

Also, it is possible that my pain is due to the fact that I am putting too much effort into concentrating. How do I find the right amount of effort (not too much, not too little)?

Thanks in advance.

May all beings develop the Dharma Eye.

When I meditate I don't stare at the tip of the nose, I just place my awareness there. Generally I have my eyes half open, half shut, and just look at what is directly in front of me (with my gaze downwards). If I need to blink, I blink. Over time though as the mind becomes more tranquil, still and one-pointed my vision starts to fade away, even with the eyes open, and I don't notice if the eyes are tired or not anymore.

Thank you so much, I'm going to try every now and then to keep my eyes half open. When I do, I look at the tip of my nose. The description of your states of consciousness is very interesting, thank you.

I understand that in Pa Auk, you really have to fix and focus your mind on a specific anchor point of the nose/upperlip. What do you mean by "placing the mind", and is it more effective?