Are you talking about something like this:
I am not breathing.
Inhale breath.
Buddha is the breathing.
I am not breathing.
Exhale breath.
Buddha is the breathing.
In.
Buddha is the breathing.
Out.
Buddha is the breathing.
And so on.
?
Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
- Mahabrahma
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Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
- cappuccino
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Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
what the hellMahabrahma wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:57 pm Are you talking about something like this:
Buddha is the breathing.
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
That is the right question. I have explained it here: "Two Types of Vinnana – We Have Control Over Kamma Vinnana":viewtopic.php?p=484554#p484554
More current posts at: https://puredhamma.net/key-dhamma-conce ... aggregate/
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
The "suchness" that you seem to be thinking of is similar to that of Yogācāra. It makes little sense to me, for there to be a pure consciousness without conceptions. It makes little sense, because we are told that conceptions go with conciousness and with them feelings too.
Since we are talking about immaterial attainments, I don't see how biology comes into it. There are 6 senses in Buddhism, not 5. Conciousness, vedanā & sañña have nothing to do with biology. The nearest we get to that is the idea of the 4 elements, with one's conciousness, vedanā & sañña being dependent upon a physical basis in addition to an immaterial one. That's not biology though, no medicine, nor physiology.And everyone is talking about biology when speaking about cessation of consciousness and cessation of feeling and cessation of perception They say its not possible for the Arahant because they think of biological functions rather than human experience
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- Mahabrahma
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Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
Thich Nhat Hanh teaches a meditation like this.cappuccino wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:00 pmwhat the hellMahabrahma wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:57 pm Are you talking about something like this:
Buddha is the breathing.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
Who are you asking?Mahabrahma wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:57 pm Are you talking about something like this:
I am not breathing.
Inhale breath.
Buddha is the breathing.
I am not breathing.
Exhale breath.
Buddha is the breathing.
In.
Buddha is the breathing.
Out.
Buddha is the breathing.
And so on.
?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
- Mahabrahma
- Posts: 2232
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:02 am
- Location: Krishnaloka :).
- Contact:
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
Oh.
I was responding to this reply to someone else in a positive light.
I was responding to this reply to someone else in a positive light.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
Buddha is teacher
- Mahabrahma
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Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
No one to experience it, therefore no experience, just thusness like a guy was saying. It's an early Buddhist thought though.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
- Mahabrahma
- Posts: 2232
- Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:02 am
- Location: Krishnaloka :).
- Contact:
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
We're supposed to put on the robe of a Buddha and Teach one day too.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.
-Dhammapada.
- cappuccino
- Posts: 12879
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:45 am
- Contact:
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
You can’t put on the robe of a BuddhaMahabrahma wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:14 pm We're supposed to put on the robe of a Buddha and Teach one day too.
Not easily anyway
Last edited by cappuccino on Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
Dividing Vinnana into two types does not make the perceived contradiction an error of translation, considering that you seem to acknowledge that the tipitaka does not explicitly mention two types of consiousness.Lal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:04 pmThat is the right question. I have explained it here: "Two Types of Vinnana – We Have Control Over Kamma Vinnana":viewtopic.php?p=484554#p484554
More current posts at: https://puredhamma.net/key-dhamma-conce ... aggregate/
Are you implying that the elders who collected the suttas overlooked adding "kamma" before "vinnana" in their exposition of PS?
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
The answer is a bit long. But you first need to realize that "Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?" is not the only contradiction.Bundokji wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:38 pmDividing Vinnana into two types does not make the perceived contradiction an error of translation, considering that you seem to acknowledge that the tipitaka does not explicitly mention two types of consiousness.Lal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:04 pmThat is the right question. I have explained it here: "Two Types of Vinnana – We Have Control Over Kamma Vinnana":viewtopic.php?p=484554#p484554
More current posts at: https://puredhamma.net/key-dhamma-conce ... aggregate/
Are you implying that the elders who collected the suttas overlooked adding "kamma" before "vinnana" in their exposition of PS?
Contradiction 2- "Avijjā nirodhā" Leads to "vedanā nirodho"?
From the same sutta that I quoted earlier, "Paṭiccasamuppāda Sutta (SN 12.1)": https://suttacentral.net/sn12.1/en/suja ... =latin#3.6
"When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease......When contact ceases, feeling ceases.
Again, did the Buddha lose all feelings upon Enlightenment?
- The answer is that vedana are also of different types. What ceases is "samphassa-ja-vedana."
- See "Two Ways Vēdanā (Feelings) Can Arise": viewtopic.php?p=491701#p491701
There are more terms in Paṭicca Samuppāda that are in brief (uddesa version). They need to be explained (niddesa version) and sometimes in detail with examples (patiniddesa version.)
I discussed this issue before in a bit more detail. See "Distortion of Pāli Keywords in Paṭicca Samuppāda": viewtopic.php?p=655847#p655847
Re: Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?
The contradictions you are presenting are based on your understanding that PS in reverse mode is a description of the Buddha or the Arahant, rather than a subset of this/that conditionality.Lal wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:23 pm The answer is a bit long. But you first need to realize that "Contradiction 1- Viññāṇa Means Consciousness?" is not the only contradiction.
Contradiction 2- "Avijjā nirodhā" Leads to "vedanā nirodho"?
From the same sutta that I quoted earlier, "Paṭiccasamuppāda Sutta (SN 12.1)": https://suttacentral.net/sn12.1/en/suja ... =latin#3.6
"When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease......When contact ceases, feeling ceases.
Again, did the Buddha lose all feelings upon Enlightenment?
- The answer is that vedana are also of different types. What ceases is "samphassa-ja-vedana."
- See "Two Ways Vēdanā (Feelings) Can Arise": viewtopic.php?p=491701#p491701
There are more terms in Paṭicca Samuppāda that are in brief (uddesa version). They need to be explained (niddesa version) and sometimes in detail with examples (patiniddesa version.)
I discussed this issue before in a bit more detail. See "Distortion of Pāli Keywords in Paṭicca Samuppāda": viewtopic.php?p=655847#p655847
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
This was the last word of the Tathagata.
This was the last word of the Tathagata.