Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Kumara
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Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by Kumara »

Mindfulness of breathing or ānāpānasati is actually quite simple and easy. It’s also a very effective way to calm down anxiety and incessant thinking. Yet, some people who are in need of this say they can’t do it. Some who tried end up with so much tension—especially just above the middle of their eyebrows—that they simply had to give up.

So, what’s happening here? I’ve met quite a number of such people and found out that it’s simply because they are doing it wrongly.

https://justpaste.it/breathing
Last edited by bodom on Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mjaviem
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by mjaviem »

Kumara wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:12 am Mindfulness of breathing or ānāpānasati is actually quite simple and easy. It’s also a very effective way to calm down anxiety and incessant thinking. Yet, some people who are in need of this say they can’t do it. Some who tried end up with so much tension—especially just above the middle of their eyebrows—that they simply had to give up.
...
Alright, bhante, it seems good for psychological issues, but what does it have to do with the Noble Eightfold Path and with entering jhana? Are this people in need, bhikkus gone forth to the life of renunciates? If not, this is like saying walking is good for health and beneficial for the body. Very nice but not related. I say this because I don't think ānāpānasati can make people with wrong livelihood and wrong intentions progress in the Buddhist understanding.
Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato Sammā Sambuddhassa
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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by Sam Vara »

Kumara wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:12 am Mindfulness of breathing or ānāpānasati is actually quite simple and easy. It’s also a very effective way to calm down anxiety and incessant thinking. Yet, some people who are in need of this say they can’t do it. Some who tried end up with so much tension—especially just above the middle of their eyebrows—that they simply had to give up.

So, what’s happening here? I’ve met quite a number of such people and found out that it’s simply because they are doing it wrongly.

Full article (329 words)​: https://justpaste.it/breathing​​
I get "404 not found". It gave me tension above the middle of my eyebrows! :)
allium
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by allium »

Kumara wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:12 am Mindfulness of breathing or ānāpānasati is actually quite simple and easy. It’s also a very effective way to calm down anxiety and incessant thinking. Yet, some people who are in need of this say they can’t do it. Some who tried end up with so much tension—especially just above the middle of their eyebrows—that they simply had to give up.

So, what’s happening here? I’ve met quite a number of such people and found out that it’s simply because they are doing it wrongly.

Full article (329 words)​: https://justpaste.it/breathing​​
https://justpaste.it/breathing
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Sam Vara
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by Sam Vara »

allium wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:31 pm
Kumara wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:12 am Mindfulness of breathing or ānāpānasati is actually quite simple and easy. It’s also a very effective way to calm down anxiety and incessant thinking. Yet, some people who are in need of this say they can’t do it. Some who tried end up with so much tension—especially just above the middle of their eyebrows—that they simply had to give up.

So, what’s happening here? I’ve met quite a number of such people and found out that it’s simply because they are doing it wrongly.

Full article (329 words)​: https://justpaste.it/breathing​​
https://justpaste.it/breathing
Thank you, allium. And thank you Bhante. :anjali:
DeadBuddha
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by DeadBuddha »

Bhante,

Please, what do you think of this text where the Buddha teaches a meditation based on breathing through the tip of the nose?
The Bhagavān told him, “Rāhula, suppose there is a bhikṣu who is happy being alone in quietude. In a secluded place, he corrects his body, corrects his intention, and sits cross-legged. Without any other thoughts, he fastens his mind on the tip of his nose.
https://suttacentral.net/ea17.1/en/pier ... ight=false

Thank you very much for your book, it inspires me a lot.
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by Alex123 »

DeadBuddha wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:36 pm Please, what do you think of this text where the Buddha teaches a meditation based on breathing through the tip of the nose?
I am also interested in this question.

In Patisambhidamagga (later? book in Sutta Pitaka) it does say that " so too the bhikkhu sits, having established
mindfulness at the nose tip or on the upper lip,
" - 170 .
TRobinson465
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by TRobinson465 »

Its stated in the visuddhimagga that mindfulness of the breath only works for people of a certain temperament. People who are speculative or deluded in particular. If they are not of that temperament you need to give them another object of meditation. That's why the Buddha taught multiple types of meditation. One size doesn't fit all. Something you consider simple and easy may not necessarily be simple and easy for someone else. Same with anything I consider simple and easy.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... html#ch2.2
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Kumara
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by Kumara »

DeadBuddha wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:36 pm Bhante,

Please, what do you think of this text where the Buddha teaches a meditation based on breathing through the tip of the nose?
The Bhagavān told him, “Rāhula, suppose there is a bhikṣu who is happy being alone in quietude. In a secluded place, he corrects his body, corrects his intention, and sits cross-legged. Without any other thoughts, he fastens his mind on the tip of his nose.
https://suttacentral.net/ea17.1/en/pier ... ight=false

Thank you very much for your book, it inspires me a lot.
Interesting. I've checked the original Chinese version, and indeed it says 繫意鼻頭.

The Agama sutras sometimes have commentarial stuff included. This is an example.
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Kumara
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by Kumara »

Alex123 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:50 pm
DeadBuddha wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:36 pm Please, what do you think of this text where the Buddha teaches a meditation based on breathing through the tip of the nose?
I am also interested in this question.

In Patisambhidamagga (later? book in Sutta Pitaka) it does say that " so too the bhikkhu sits, having established
mindfulness at the nose tip or on the upper lip,
" - 170 .
To my knowledge, that's the Vibhaṅga of Abhidhamma Piṭaka. Paṭisambhidāmagga, one of Khuddaka Nikāya’s later additions, has a completely different interpretation: pari means pariggaha (taking up, grasping) and mukha means niyyāna (going out, departure, release, deliverance).

You can find this in "Appendix 11: Ānāpānasati Revisited" of the book.
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by Mumfie »

Kumara wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 7:32 am To my knowledge, that's the Vibhaṅga of Abhidhamma Piṭaka.
It's actually in both texts. Here's the Paṭisambhidāmagga version:
As the tree trunk placed on the level piece of ground, so the sign for the anchoring of mindfulness. As the saw's teeth, so the in-breaths and out-breaths. As the man's mindfulness, established by the saw's teeth where they touch the tree trunk, without his giving attention to the saw's teeth as they approach and recede, though they are not unrecognized by him as they do so, and so he manifests endeavour, carries out a task and achieves a distinctive effect, so too the bhikkhu sits, having established mindfulness at the nose tip or on the upper lip (nāsikagge vā mukhanimitte vā), without giving attention to the in-breaths and out-breaths as they approach and recede, though they are not unrecognized by him as they do so, and he manifests endeavour, carries out a task and achieves a distinctive effect.
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Shall daunt his spirit;”
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BrokenBones
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by BrokenBones »

Being aware of the body breathing seems so much more logical than focusing on the nose.

It's meant to be sati of breathing; not sati of breath sensations (which will undoubtedly arise without going looking for them) or sati of the nose.

It's 'whole body of breath' not 'whole nose full of breath'.

Tradition is a hard thing to come up against... especially when it has gone down the wrong track for so long.
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by auto »

TRobinson465 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:04 am Its stated in the visuddhimagga that mindfulness of the breath only works for people of a certain temperament. People who are speculative or deluded in particular. If they are not of that temperament you need to give them another object of meditation. That's why the Buddha taught multiple types of meditation. One size doesn't fit all. Something you consider simple and easy may not necessarily be simple and easy for someone else. Same with anything I consider simple and easy.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... html#ch2.2
problem already is that there are variety of objects to choose from. Like the object doesn't have special use.
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by auto »

BrokenBones wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 1:37 pm Being aware of the body breathing seems so much more logical than focusing on the nose.

It's meant to be sati of breathing; not sati of breath sensations (which will undoubtedly arise without going looking for them) or sati of the nose.

It's 'whole body of breath' not 'whole nose full of breath'.

Tradition is a hard thing to come up against... especially when it has gone down the wrong track for so long.
Establishing mindfulness at the nose or upper lip isn't a task, texts says the task is something to do with achieving distinctive effect. The mindfulness established at the nose or upper lip is the distinctive effect achieved by in- and outbreaths.

Text doesn't say you should focus on the tip of the nose from the get go(i mean like it is mindfulness already). One reason for commentaries, also an aide to read commentaries. I looked up what commentary said about it.

The mindfulness is anchored(visuddhimagga tm) by the sign.
All this you can read out from a single sentence from agama,
https://suttacentral.net/ea17.1/en/pierquet?reference=none&highlight=false wrote:Without any other thoughts, he fastens his mind on the tip of his nose.
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Re: Why Some People Can’t Do Mindfulness of Breathing?

Post by TRobinson465 »

auto wrote: Thu Apr 06, 2023 3:12 pm
TRobinson465 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:04 am Its stated in the visuddhimagga that mindfulness of the breath only works for people of a certain temperament. People who are speculative or deluded in particular. If they are not of that temperament you need to give them another object of meditation. That's why the Buddha taught multiple types of meditation. One size doesn't fit all. Something you consider simple and easy may not necessarily be simple and easy for someone else. Same with anything I consider simple and easy.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... html#ch2.2
problem already is that there are variety of objects to choose from. Like the object doesn't have special use.
The visuddhimagga gives instructions on which object works best with which temperament. Back then the Buddha or great arahants like sariputta could just read ppls minds and assign them an object based on their temperament as most ppl don't know what temperament they are. Nowadays you just kinda have to try and see which works best for you or just do a non-color kasina meditation since those work with any temperament. Most ppl in the west find anapanasati effective due to the culture of being very speculative and deluded into the wrong view that only this life matters. Doesn't mean it'll work for everybody.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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