Allodium

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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thepea
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Allodium

Post by thepea »

allodium, land freely held, without obligation of service to any overlord.

Is this what Buddha had over his body? Given his attadipa sutta:
"Monks, be islands unto yourselves,[1] be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other.

Is Buddha teaching each of us to hold allodial title over this home we live in our body?
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Allodium

Post by Mahabrahma »

Earth stones, soil, grass, trees, little critters, etc, all have a certain type of life to them. It's a little different when it comes with the human body, but there are a lot of similarities too, a lot of unique life that is sacred.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Allodium

Post by Mahabrahma »

Although I'd like to say that one shouldn't consider that there are bodies that belong to other people in that sense. We are free of being objects of possession. Slavery is against the law. So treat it as you treat Anatta.
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Goofaholix
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Re: Allodium

Post by Goofaholix »

thepea wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:56 pm Is Buddha teaching each of us to hold allodial title over this home we live in our body?
No

He's talking about the need for his students to take responsibility for developing their own practice once he is gone.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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SDC
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Re: Allodium

Post by SDC »

No lol
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Sam Vara
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Re: Allodium

Post by Sam Vara »

No. He said that the body should not be grasped at or seen as " mine".

"Allodium" is a legal concept that the Buddha didn't know about.
justindesilva
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Re: Allodium

Post by justindesilva »

Sam Vara wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:07 am No. He said that the body should not be grasped at or seen as " mine".

"Allodium" is a legal concept that the Buddha didn't know about.
Allodial land was referred to lands under nobles or lords and is a term in land tenure , When the feudal system ended all lands held under nobles was taken over by the king especially in England and came as a law under british colonies in India and Sri lanka and the common people could own it by paying a fee to the king or the government ,
I cannot understand how one can apply law of allodium to budda darma as it is related to land tenure,
User13866
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Re: Allodium

Post by User13866 »

He explained specifically that it's not like that and It's one of his principial arguments.
Master Gotama, I'm saying that 'Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, fabrications are my self, consciousness is my self.' As does this great multitude." [4]

"What does this great multitude have to do with you? Please focus just on your own assertion."

"Yes, Master Gotama, I'm saying that 'Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, fabrications are my self, consciousness is my self.'"

"Very well then, Aggivessana, I will cross-question you on this matter. Answer as you see fit. What do you think? Would a consecrated, noble-warrior king — such as King Pasenadi of Kosala or King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha — wield the power in his own domain to execute those who deserve execution, to fine those who deserve to be fined, and to banish those who deserve to be banished?"

"Yes, Master Gotama, he would wield the power in his own domain to execute those who deserve execution, to fine those who deserve to be fined, and to banish those who deserve to be banished. Even these oligarchic groups, such as the Vajjians & Mallans, wield the power in their own domains to execute those who deserve execution, to fine those who deserve to be fined, and to banish those who deserve to be banished, [5] to say nothing of a consecrated, noble-warrior king such as King Pasenadi of Kosala, or King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha. He would wield it, and he would deserve to wield it."

"What do you think, Aggivessana? When you say, 'Form is my self,' do you wield power over that form: 'May my form be thus, may my form not be thus'?"

When this was said, Saccaka the Nigaṇṭha-son was silent.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
This topic is best suited for the Beginner's section
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Sasha_A
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Re: Allodium

Post by Sasha_A »

thepea wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:56 pm "Monks, be islands unto yourselves,[1] be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other.

Is Buddha teaching each of us to hold allodial title over this home we live in our body?
SN47.14
So mendicants, live as your own island, your own refuge, with no other refuge. Let the teaching be your island and your refuge, with no other refuge.

And how does a mendicant do this? It’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world. They meditate observing an aspect of feelings … mind … principles—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.

That’s how a mendicant lives as their own island, their own refuge, with no other refuge. That’s how the teaching is their island and their refuge, with no other refuge.
It is merely dukkha that comes into being, dukkha that stands and disappears,
Nothing apart from dukkha comes into being, nothing other than dukkha ceases.
- SN5.10
justindesilva
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Re: Allodium

Post by justindesilva »

Sasha_A wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:24 am
thepea wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:56 pm "Monks, be islands unto yourselves,[1] be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other.

Is Buddha teaching each of us to hold allodial title over this home we live in our body?
SN47.14
So mendicants, live as your own island, your own refuge, with no other refuge. Let the teaching be your island and your refuge, with no other refuge.

And how does a mendicant do this? It’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world. They meditate observing an aspect of feelings … mind … principles—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.

That’s how a mendicant lives as their own island, their own refuge, with no other refuge. That’s how the teaching is their island and their refuge, with no other refuge.
An analogy to suit this discussion is met with in SN 47,6 Sakunaggi sutta , It mentions a parable of a quail carried by a hawk away from its fields, The quail who out wits the hawk gets it dropped by a neewly ploughed field and escapes under a clump of ploughed soil , The message here is mindfulness of foundations as rupa vedana sangna sankara vingnana to be kept in the as territory to escape from sorrow grief etc, Please down load this sutta and refer to get a better idea than my explanation,
The other sutta in connection is Andakara sutta explaining the greatest darkness in life as not knowing stress origination of stress and cessation of stress through foundations of mindfulness where the darkness felt on a planet where moon or sun light never reaches in the cosmos
Allodium is not suited as I explained that it is not related to any words of pali but is derived from latin as real estate or freehold land in late europe .
thepea
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Re: Allodium

Post by thepea »

justindesilva wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:27 pm
Sasha_A wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:24 am
thepea wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:56 pm "Monks, be islands unto yourselves,[1] be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island and a refuge to you, having no other.

Is Buddha teaching each of us to hold allodial title over this home we live in our body?
SN47.14
So mendicants, live as your own island, your own refuge, with no other refuge. Let the teaching be your island and your refuge, with no other refuge.

And how does a mendicant do this? It’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world. They meditate observing an aspect of feelings … mind … principles—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.

That’s how a mendicant lives as their own island, their own refuge, with no other refuge. That’s how the teaching is their island and their refuge, with no other refuge.
An analogy to suit this discussion is met with in SN 47,6 Sakunaggi sutta , It mentions a parable of a quail carried by a hawk away from its fields, The quail who out wits the hawk gets it dropped by a neewly ploughed field and escapes under a clump of ploughed soil , The message here is mindfulness of foundations as rupa vedana sangna sankara vingnana to be kept in the as territory to escape from sorrow grief etc, Please down load this sutta and refer to get a better idea than my explanation,
The other sutta in connection is Andakara sutta explaining the greatest darkness in life as not knowing stress origination of stress and cessation of stress through foundations of mindfulness where the darkness felt on a planet where moon or sun light never reaches in the cosmos
Allodium is not suited as I explained that it is not related to any words of pali but is derived from latin as real estate or freehold land in late europe .
Allodium:
If you had the property, and could defend it against others, then it was yours in “allodium”. Since there was no place to register your title, it was simply acknowledged that you held allodial title. That simply meant that you had no deed.To a certain extent, the concept of “allodial title” is just a legal fiction.

“If you had the property”
We each have this apparent human form(body), within this body exists triple gem(the island refuge or ultimate).

“and could defend it against others”
The body defends itself from dangers and disease, it kills and destroys anything that tries to harm it.

“then it was yours in “allodium”.
You were born with this land and you knowinly(apparently) and unknowingly(ultimately) protect and defend it. This meet the definition of allodial.

“Since there was no place to register your title,”
The birth process requires no registration or naming to take place. Passing through Nibanna ultimately a linking to a vibration of similar frequency takes place, whether there is awareness of this or not deciphers nobility.

“it was simply acknowledged that you held allodial title.”
For the ignoble it is simply this apparent reality of awareness. The apparent body with name is identity. For the noble this apparent body and name is seen through and the island refuge is seen as the true allodial title.

“That simply meant that you had no deed.”
Belief in allodial title of the apparent form is not taking intentional conscious action. Wisdom of the ultimate as island allodium is intentional conscious action.

“To a certain extent, the concept of “allodial title” is just a legal fiction.”
The concept of this apparent allodium is living as the fiction, whereas living as the ultimate allodium is living as the fact.
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Sam Vara
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Re: Allodium

Post by Sam Vara »

The life in inanimate objects, property tights, and vibrations. All possibly quite interesting, but off this goes to "Other Paths".
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