Do you believe in the real possibility of developing psychic powers (walking on water, crossing walls, levitating, etc.)

[Sha Bac]

Magic powers can develop through kundalini, chakra work, and yoga. There are magic powers outside jhana. But in my own experience, a person has to agonize over TRUTH. Magic powers develop to assist the understanding. I have experience with magic powers and can say I've always been a natural philosopher. I used to experience a lot of obsessive thoughts in agony over what I was trying to determine to be the truth. Kundalini awakens as a result, and the medium in consciousness of how the powers work facilitates understanding. If you're not in agony, desperate for the truth, you may not develop them.

[Cause_and_Effect]

Not sure about all the psychic powers like levitating. However others such as telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition and others clearly exist and I believe they can be developed by meditators with sufficient Jhana.

This capacity can also be enhanced if utlizing psychedelics, although care needs to be taken its not for everyone and the release of supernormal powers can occur in a spontaneous and unpredictable way with these tools. If harnessed rightly though they can make these abilities more accessible.

Selected contents

[Ceisiwr]

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Please stop pushing the use of drugs on this forum.

[Cause_and_Effect]

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Please stop pushing the use of drugs on this forum.

Stop derailing the thread and trying to insert a generic 'drug' narrative.

Stay off the thread if you have nothing to contribute, which you evidently dont. Learn some humility about things outside your range of experience.

The topic is about supernormal powers. Psychedelics can lead to the release of supernormal powers. Thus they deserve to be mentioned.
The use of certain magic drugs to unleash these capacities is well documented from ancient to modern times.

Again, your 'anti drug' bating and soap box isn't going to be tolerated or entertained whatsoever.

I have discussed the topic of the thread. If you choose to respond further on the topic do so, otherwise leave.

[blightmaster]

Stop derailing the thread and trying to insert a generic 'drug' narrative.

Stay off the thread if you have nothing to contribute, which you evidently dont. Learn some humility about things outside your range of experience.

The topic is about supernormal powers. Psychedelics can lead to the release of supernormal powers. Thus they deserve to be mentioned.
The use of certain magic drugs to unleash these capacities is well documented from ancient to modern times.

Again, your 'anti drug' bating and soap box isn't going to be tolerated or entertained whatsoever.

I have discussed the topic of the thread. If you choose to respond further on the topic do so, otherwise leave.

I assume you must have superpowers by now after making your dealer rich?

[Mahabrahma]

The Green Goblin got a lot of misunderstandings and alterations in consciousness and abilities from taking drugs, but he did not follow the Noble Eightfold Path.

Perhaps if he utilized himself in a way that was helpful...

Instead of...

[Cause_and_Effect]

~

Perhaps he also realized the Metacosmic Void and Universal Mind, and gained insight into selflessness?
That's quite a character, maybe he was on the path after all.

[SDC]

Psychedelics can lead to the release of supernormal powers. Thus they deserve to be mentioned.

You sound so ridiculous it makes me feel sad for you.

[Mahabrahma]

Problem with drugs is that they're addictive, they lure you in with things, they create problems with craving... For example what if you get no self, but not following the Noble Eightfold Path and the Jhanas... Even Buddha didn't teach the no self paradigm to those who weren't ready for it.

[TRobinson465]

Yes, considering Buddhism is based on the idea that the Buddha basically enlightened by developing psychic powers through meditation and then used them to develop an understanding of the world through his direct knowledge.

[SDC]

Problem with drugs is that they're addictive, they lure you in with things. For example what if you get no self, but not following the Noble Eightfold Path and the Jhanas...

The problem with drugs is that they elevate the experience out into the expanse of the all, creating the illusion of crossing beyond the extent of a preconceived limit. Unfortunately, the suttas do not speak of recourse in that direction, so all that can be found is a unique shape of expansion into a landscape of the same “material” as any other sensual experience.

[Cause_and_Effect]

Psychedelics can lead to the release of supernormal powers. Thus they deserve to be mentioned.

You sound so ridiculous it makes me feel sad for you.

What's ridiculous?
The Buddha taught the development of various supernormal faculties as an outcome of certain mind development, but unnecessary to the goal of liberation.

Psychedelics have a well documented and observed capacity to provoke the occurance of some of these Psi phenomena also. Likewise I view them as interesting but unnecessary to the path, which is about realizing the cessation of suffering and the supreme Void.

Problem with drugs is that they're addictive, they lure you in with things. For example what if you get no self, but not following the Noble Eightfold Path and the Jhanas...

Psychedelics are non-addictive, and in fact have been used successfully to help beat drug addiction. More effective in many case than other means such as therapy.

The problem with drugs is that they elevate the experience out into the expanse of the all, creating the illusion of crossing beyond the extent of a preconceived limit. Unfortunately, the suttas do not speak of recourse in that direction, so all that can be found is a unique shape of expansion into a landscape of the same “material” as any other sensual experience.

An interesting theory. You see it as illusion, fair enough.

Some see it as causing a type of 'jhana' like state of expanded consciousness which likewise can trigger well documented psychic phenomena and insight into the nature of reality.
If you don't think it does that then that's fine.
Those who do will utilize them accordingly and beneficially and judiciously in conjunction with meditation.

I always make clear, I neither recommend not dissuade anyone from studying more about the subject, hence why I only reference the best academic material on it.

[santa100]

Some see it as causing a type of 'jhana' like state of expanded consciousness which likewise can trigger well documented psychic phenomena and insight into the nature of reality.
If you don't think it does that then that's fine.
Those who do will utilize them accordingly and beneficially and judiciously in conjunction with meditation.

If that was the case, then there'd be other guys who'd argue that only sissies would resort to psychedelics, that if one wants to go the drug route, at least should go with the real ones, like roids, HGH, EPO. No need for boring jhanas, just turn into a freak, get all the chicks, and go straight to "Nirvana" with them every night. There'd sure be quite a lot of real "penetrative" insight into the nature of reality, unlike that useless psychedelics crap.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

No squabbling guys.



If you don't like the topic, move on.

I'm going to close the reports on the squabbling and let those posts stand but if you still think there's posts that are inappropriate (once you look past the senseless quarrelling to date) vis-a-vis the Terms of Service, please report those.

Further squabbling may be dealt with more firmly.



Metta,
Paul.

[SDC]

Some see it as causing a type of 'jhana' like state of expanded consciousness which likewise can trigger well documented psychic phenomena and insight into the nature of reality.
If you don't think it does that then that's fine.
Those who do will utilize them accordingly and beneficially and judiciously in conjunction with meditation.

I always make clear, I neither recommend not dissuade anyone from studying more about the subject, hence why I only reference the best academic material on it.

The suttas do not describe jhana as being induced on account of chemistry, but do so on account of deliberate effort to develop a lifestyle of virtue, restraint and seclusion from sense pleasures and unwholesome states. Psychedelics are not the topic of this thread, and are a purely sensual experience.

Furthermore, the six great knowledges (psychic powers), which are the topic of this thread, are said to become available to those who have put in that previous effort to develop wholesome inclinations of thought on top of an already wholesome non-doing of of what is considered misconduct. Couple that with seclusion, and the development of jhana, then those abilities may be there. Or they may not. I believe Sariputta had none.

What you are referring to when you talk about abilities on account of psychedelics are actually not what the suttas are describing at all.