Why can arahants cause offenses breaking minor rules?

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Joe.c
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Re: Why can arahants cause offenses breaking minor rules?

Post by Joe.c »

Mahabrahma wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:25 pm Arhats can be considered as causing an offense, yet it is in no way their fault, it would be coming from an outside source. However for this outside negative source to be pinned down, the Sangha has to help stop the behaviour in a Buddhist Way, in order for the Arhat to be free of that negativity that is no way "of them."
Dude, don't say anything if you don't know.

Don't misrepresent one who you don't have any understanding yet. Don't block your own path and create a big road block.

Minor rules are just worldly rule. Worldly rules change all the time and can be differ from one area to another or time to time, so unless someone tell the arahant. The arahant might not even know that they have broken the minor rules.

But an Ariya can't break the ariyan precepts ever:
- killing
- steal
- lie or any wrong speech
- sex

These precepts are maintained for 24 hours non stop.
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Mahabrahma
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Re: Why can arahants cause offenses breaking minor rules?

Post by Mahabrahma »

Okay thank you for your insight. Be careful in life! :candle:
That sage who has perfect insight,
at the summit of spiritual perfection:
that’s who I call a brahmin.

-Dhammapada.
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Eko Care
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Re: Why can arahants cause offenses breaking minor rules?

Post by Eko Care »

SecretSage wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:31 pm But didn't the teacher Gautama The Buddha use and display his iddhi power to the lay people on many occasions? What's the point of this rule?

If I achieved arahantship and saw that displaying iddhi to the lay people on certain occasions would work for the welfare and happiness of the world then why wouldn't I do it? I don't get it. Many of the minor rules I don't understand the purpose behind.
Somewhere in the commentary I have read a story where the Blessed one says something like this: "The rules are not for the Buddha but for the disciples, just like the King can order servants to not to eat mangos from royal park while he himself eats " .

I have read from a sutta or commentary that "there are Vijjas by which iddhis can be displayed. So people can not believe real iddhis if monks start to show it."

But the Blessed One allowed to show iddhis of teaching (Anusasanaa Patihaariya).
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Gwi II
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Re: Why can arahants cause offenses breaking minor rules?

Post by Gwi II »

SecretSage wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 6:59 pm It's mentioned that the arahant Pindola Bharadvaja displayed his superhuman powers to householders by flying to retrieve a bowl and caused The Buddha to create a dukkata offense rule against displaying supernormal powers to the householders ( Vin.ii.110).

But how is this? Pindola Bharadvaja is an arahant with all of his mental defilements ended.

Before passing away The Buddha said:
"If it wishes, after my passing the Saṅgha may abolish the lesser and minor training rules. " (DN 16)
Does this mean many of the minor rules have no connection to achieving arahantship or are done for teaching purposes or some other purpose? The arahant Gautama is the teacher and other arahants can teach some times too but their past kamma is still different.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why can arahants cause offenses breaking minor rules?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

While on almsround in Lampang, Thailand near to the Burmese border, some dāyaka offered what I thought were sweets, so I accepted them. They turned out to be coins wrapped in paper. I had fallen into an Offence of Nissāgiya Pācittiyā, without any fault on my part.

Strictly speaking, having received money, one should gather a Saṅgha of four monks, who should then appoint a trusted monk among them to dispose of the money. A lay attendant may take it if one is present who understands the Vinaya, and he or she can then purchase requisites for the Saṅgha, who may use them (except for the offending monk).

If no such layperson is present, the appointed monk should throw the money outside of the monastery boundaries without taking any notice of where it falls.

To avoid this hassle, when I realised I had been duped, I threw away the coins myself. Maybe it would have been educational for the other monks if I had followed the formal procedure.

An Arahant could fall into such kind of offences, without having any greed for the money (or what he thought was sweets). An Arahant new to the area may not be familiar with the local customs.
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