Over pricing and stealing

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
asahi
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Over pricing and stealing

Post by asahi »

Does selling goods at a much higher price in which it costs more than it is worth for constitute stealing and hence violates the precept ?
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SDC
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

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asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:44 pm Does selling goods at a much higher price in which it costs more than it is worth for constitute stealing and hence violates the precept ?
Sounds more like lying, but probably a bit of both. Obviously against the precepts.
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by DNS »

It depends on the intention. If it is out of greed and knowing you could still make some profit / a living for selling it lower, then it is wrong and possibly against the spirit of the precept.

Usually, the free-market will take care of such greed anyway. A businessman who charges excessively will soon be out of business, because people will buy for a lower price at one of his competitors.
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by asahi »

SDC wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:56 pm
asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:44 pm Does selling goods at a much higher price in which it costs more than it is worth for constitute stealing and hence violates the precept ?
Sounds more like lying, but probably a bit of both. Obviously against the precepts.
I believe profiteering is unreasonable profit and are a kind of cheating in commercial activity hence a kind of variation of stealing . This happens so often nowadays wherever it is . At my place previously foods sold at 5 dollars has increased to 7 or 8 dollars with the same size or portion of foods . The goverment appear to be unconcerned or callous .
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

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asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:05 pm At my place previously foods sold at 5 dollars has increased to 7 or 8 dollars with the same size or portion of foods . The goverment appear to be unconcerned or callous .
That's called inflation. The grocer may not be greedy. It's more likely the cost of his products have gone up, fuel has gone up, etc, causing him to raise prices. It takes a lot more money to fill up a tank of gas and the products are delivered by trucks and vans which use a lot of fuel.
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by asahi »

DNS wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:45 pm
asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:05 pm At my place previously foods sold at 5 dollars has increased to 7 or 8 dollars with the same size or portion of foods . The goverment appear to be unconcerned or callous .
That's called inflation. The grocer may not be greedy. It's more likely the cost of his products have gone up, fuel has gone up, etc, causing him to raise prices. It takes a lot more money to fill up a tank of gas and the products are delivered by trucks and vans which use a lot of fuel.
You are mistaken . The fuel all the while under subsidied in my country 0.50 usd per litre which is Very cheap . Example of the food i was saying are noodle made from flour which is controlled item by goverment . The price of flour are under subsidied too which is cheap . Therefore , inflation is not the real reason .
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

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asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:51 pm You are mistaken . The fuel all the while under subsidied in my country . Very cheap . Example of the food i was saying are noodle made from flour which is controlled item by goverment . The price of flour are under subsidied too which is cheap . Therefore , inflation is not the real reason .
Are you in India? Okay, fair enough. I'm in the U.S.A. where not only is fuel not subsidized, it is taxed to death! There are federal and state gas taxes on top of the prices, making it expensive.
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

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DNS wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:54 pm
asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:51 pm You are mistaken . The fuel all the while under subsidied in my country . Very cheap . Example of the food i was saying are noodle made from flour which is controlled item by goverment . The price of flour are under subsidied too which is cheap . Therefore , inflation is not the real reason .
Are you in India? Okay, fair enough. I'm in the U.S.A. where not only is fuel not subsidized, it is taxed to death! There are federal and state gas taxes on top of the prices, making it expensive.
0.50 cents per litre fuel . Flour , sugar , chicken meats and many items are under subsidies . So , the seller are over charging price . Not only that , the noodles sold appear lesser than before . But you know what , all those peoples are not buddhist , they dont have to follow buddhism precepts and as long as goverment never intervene , consumers are force to pay more than ever .
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by dharmacorps »

The precept is against taking what is not freely given. If money is exchanged for something, then by definition it is not free and nothing is taken without permission. So the precept doesn't apply.
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by User13866 »

Exploiting vulnerability is unwholesome if done out of greed.

Having too high prices is generally not that because other than greed there are many reasons as to why people may overprice their wares & services.
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by TRobinson465 »

asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:44 pm Does selling goods at a much higher price in which it costs more than it is worth for constitute stealing and hence violates the precept ?
Depends, if a good suddenly became scarce and you are simply benefiting from market conditions beyond your control where the markup price is very high. I would say probably not. If you are jacking up prices purely out of excessive greed due to some kind of monopoly power you have, like they do with insulin in America, that is almost certainly bad kamma, although maybe not technically breaking the 2nd precept.

Other kinds of unfair practices like selling bootleg products and pretending its high end is certainly bad, or just charging more because your particular product is hard to compare prices/quality for, such as used cars and certain types of insurance and real estate, and you think you can get away with duping someone for more money is probably also bad.
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by TRobinson465 »

asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:51 pm
DNS wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:45 pm
asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:05 pm At my place previously foods sold at 5 dollars has increased to 7 or 8 dollars with the same size or portion of foods . The goverment appear to be unconcerned or callous .
That's called inflation. The grocer may not be greedy. It's more likely the cost of his products have gone up, fuel has gone up, etc, causing him to raise prices. It takes a lot more money to fill up a tank of gas and the products are delivered by trucks and vans which use a lot of fuel.
You are mistaken . The fuel all the while under subsidied in my country 0.50 usd per litre which is Very cheap . Example of the food i was saying are noodle made from flour which is controlled item by goverment . The price of flour are under subsidied too which is cheap . Therefore , inflation is not the real reason .
even if its not inflation, that doenst mean the grocer is profiteering. it could just be the supplier is having production issues. In the US the price of eggs skyrocketted recently. its wasnt due to profiteering from grocers or egg producers, it was just a supply problem becuase of bird flu. If the grocer raised his prices and nobody else around him did he would just go out of business, unless he is the only grocer in town than perhaps he is profiteering. But raising prices alone doesnt constitute profiteering. Theres lots of non-profiteering reasons the price of things can go up.
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"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by SarathW »

asahi wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:44 pm Does selling goods at a much higher price in which it costs more than it is worth for constitute stealing and hence violates the precept ?
It is definitely not stealing as long as you are honest and upfront about the price.
Even in a court of law, the buyer has to be aware is the law.
For instance, what is the value of a Bitcoin?
The ethical nature of pricing is another topic.
Is it ethical to ask dollar one billion for a bottle of water from a billionaire about to die in a desert due to lack of water?
What if you are in a similar situation to the billionaire but a poor man who wants to be a billionaire for a few hours?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by asahi »

TRobinson465 wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:59 am ....

We are talking of in a normal circumstances , such as if you buy something the average price is such but suddenly there is an excessive hike of price on the item . I have just come across in the news , the seller of the coffee shop are selling a glass of drinking water (from running tap) with its cost only 0.10 the most but are selling at 2 dollars where the goverment already set the max at 0.50 cents , one of the consumer reported to the authority and the shop license now being retracted and issued a compound . Probably , if you are a buddhist you didnt violate the precept but certainly this is unwholesome kamma . This principle may apply to other similar situation too . This is same with no drinking alcohol but lay and monk can smokes cigarette doesnt violate the precepts . I guess this is a kind of loophole that only if one is keen in practice dhamma following the rules or laws will be taking it seriously .
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Re: Over pricing and stealing

Post by Jack19990101 »

System, government, are anatta.
Why bother being smitten with something which is beyond control.
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