Pre-awakened Gotama and his path to Liberation. Sutta oddities

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and scriptures.
Pulsar
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Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:52 pm

Re: Pre-awakened Gotama and his path to Liberation. Sutta oddities

Post by Pulsar »

Dear Alex123: Thanks for the Pali version of the original MA 114.
Agama version is concise. Pali version appears to have an add on, which seems fine to me, except for the part in bold letters.
Referring to the add-on.
“And how, bhikkhus, is one a knowledge-master? When a bhikkhu understands as they really are the origin, the passing away, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in regard to the six bases for contact, such a bhikkhu is a knowledge-master.

“And how, bhikkhus, is a bhikkhu a universal conqueror? When, having understood as they really are the origin, the passing away, the gratification, the danger, and the escape in regard to the six bases for contact, a bhikkhu is liberated by non-clinging, such a bhikkhu is a universal conqueror.

“And how, bhikkhus, does a bhikkhu excise the root of the tumour that has not been excised before? ‘The tumour,’ bhikkhus: this is a designation for this body consisting of the four great elements, originating from mother and father, built up out of rice and gruel, subject to impermanence, to rubbing and pressing, to breaking apart and dispersal. & ‘The tumour’s root’: this is a designation for craving. When craving has been abandoned by a bhikkhu, cut off at the root, [84] made like a palm stump, obliterated so that it is no more subject to future arising, in such a case the bhikkhu has excised the root of the tumour that has not been excised before. "
Bhikkhu Bodhi translation
Pali sutta is calling the tumor, the physical body, it might have seemed so, to the Pali sutta compilers influenced by
abhidhamma.
If so (in which case), in order to block the tumor from re-arising, one has to wait until one dies. After death, another body is born from mother and father, or not.
Buddha elsewhere has said
  • this Dhamma is immediate.
Isn't there a contradiction here, if in reality one has to wait until one dies, to see the outcome of one's spiritual practice?
On the other hand, if one practices satipatthana according to SN 47.42, diligently, one may notice, re-arisng of form can be stopped immediately, thus cuting off dependent Origination, and cutting off suffering in this very life, at least during the hours of diligent practice.
With love :candle:
PS: Form of Nama-rupa of DO to me is a mental image arising (based on which consciousness eye, ear, nose etc is active) due to craving, as Fire Sermon implies. Form/Rupa that arises due to craving, is defined differently in abhidhamma, in contrast to Buddha's definition.
If you do not get me, it is OK. Many think the Rupa aggregate is physical, as many suttas in the Pali canon imply. I go with the teaching presented in the Fire Sermon, supposedly Buddha's Third Sermon, and it has served me well.
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