Stream entry by simply listening to the dhamma: possible?

[berrywheel]

I lately came across this video regarding stream entry for laypersons. In my practice my main "first" goal is to attain stream entry; life can be short and to be attaining this in my current lifetime at least guarantees I can become a stream-winner in a limited period of time (thus not being stuck for many eon's to come).

Now it this talk a few statements are made which seem contradictory to other things I've read. In essence the main message of the video comes down to this (as to my understanding): during the time of the buddha, many people become stream-enterers by simply listening to the teachings of the buddha (emphasizing the true dhamma, the five nikayas). This by achieving right view. It's not necessarily because the buddha taught them since there are examples of relatively new stream-enterers reciting what the buddha teacher in which other people also became stream-enterers. Meditation is not a prerequisite but could, obviously, support the process of becoming a stream enterer. It seems like stream entry is not very difficult.

However, online I'll find much content about one needing to have achieved the first Jhana (but there is a strong sutta which contradicts this @56:10). Besides that you'll find many people that say that if one doubts whether he/she is a sotāpanna, your're not a sotāpanna yet. When trying to find how long it takes you'll find the majority of the post stating 3-12 months should be possible. The most convincing one by Ajahn Chah stating "six months or a year" (or else "You haven’t been practicing correctly").

Based on the video it seems like not much of a great deal, whereas other sources are talking of quit some time, up to roughly a year, of very serious dedicated practice. And I have trouble now how to interpreted all the information. Perhaps some of you can shed some light on this...

[santa100]

Based on the video it seems like not much of a great deal, whereas other sources are talking of quit some time, up to roughly a year, of very serious dedicated practice. And I have trouble now how to interpreted all the information. Perhaps some of you can shed some light on this...

See a previous discussion I raised about the issue of placing a time stamp on when one'll attain Sotapanna.

[SarathW]

There are certain requirements to attain Sotapanna.
- Association good friends
- Listening to true Dhamma
- Yoniso manasikara
- Follow the Noble Eightfold Path

These can be put another way too.
- Eliminate self-view, doubt, and clinging to rites and rituals

The answer is yes if you can fulfill the above criteria.

[Ontheway]

It is this very Bhante taught that there is a Soul.

https://www.dhammavuddho.com/dhammavuddho-and-the-soul/

[oliviaduke]

The existence of the Soul was first taught by this Bhante vex 5

[pulga]

Though I don't agree with everything he has to say, the late Professor Peter Masefield's book Divine Revelation in Pali Buddhism is the classic study on this topic.

[Sam Vara]

It is this very Bhante taught that there is a Soul.

https://www.dhammavuddho.com/dhammavuddho-and-the-soul/

Not at all what most people would consider a "soul", though; a use of an old term in a new way which was apparently in line with Theravadan orthodoxy.

[Crazy cloud]

I don't know if one can listen oneself to stream-entry, but I think that everything is vibration. If there is a clear connection between output (speaker) and input (listener), then the sound or vibration won't be distorted, and that which is nameless is seen clearly because there is no one noticing (distorting), there is knowing and mirroring, followed by realising.

[Ontheway]

It is this very Bhante taught that there is a Soul.

https://www.dhammavuddho.com/dhammavuddho-and-the-soul/

Not at all what most people would consider a "soul", though; a use of an old term in a new way which was apparently in line with Theravadan orthodoxy.

Sorry, I disagree. If you have carefully listen to his talks, literally what he taught is close to Antarabhava kind of bardo existence. Which is not align with Theravada orthodoxy.

Plus, he said "The Dhānañjāni Sutta (M 97,6-15) relates how “hell wardens” drag bad-doers to hell. The point of this story of facing one’s karma, Dhammavuḍḍho points out:
it is not the physical body that suffers hellish pains, but an “immaterial” being that we can call a “soul.”"

Which is wrong, because Hellish realms are under apayabhumi realm, with Rupa.

"Then the hell-wardens torture [the evil-doer] with what's called a five-fold imprisonment. They drive a red-hot iron stake through one hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through one foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the middle of his chest. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

Devaduta sutta

To say it is not a being with physical body but just as an immaterial being or soul he said, undergo suffering.... is in error.

Plus, the way he put away Abhidhamma Pitaka and commentaries, and that is the clear indication, he was not of orthodox Theravada. A orthodox Theravadin (or Vibhajjavadin) will be consistent enough to uphold all three Pitakas, along with commentaries.

[Sam Vara]

Ah, OK. I was just going by what was said in the linked article. I'm afraid I haven't listened to the talks.

[TRobinson465]

There are many suttas where the listeners enlighten just hearing the Buddha preach. So this is well founded in the texts.

I was told the reason this is possible is many of the Buddha's listeners would “meditate” while listening to a sutta and become enlightened that way.

]https://themindingcentre.org/wp/sutta-d ... -153-piya/

On top of having merit from prior lives that allows them to enlighten in such a fashion.

[DNS]

It is this very Bhante taught that there is a Soul.

https://www.dhammavuddho.com/dhammavuddho-and-the-soul/

Usually, Theravada monks who teach eternalism or semi-eternalism say things like:

permanent citta
a consciousness that is not bound by the aggregates
an impermanent self

But this one appears to have come right out and said "soul." Do you know what Theravada lineage he was based out of?

[Sam Vara]

But this one appears to have come right out and said "soul." Do you know what Theravada lineage he was based out of?

There's this and several like it:
https://vbgnet.org/dhammavuddho-mahathera/

but I'm not sure how the Malaysian lineages work. On the "soul" issue, have a look at this PDF by Piya Tan, who I think is normally reliable:
https://www.themindingcentre.org/dharma ... -RB277.pdf

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Stream entry by simply listening to the dhamma: possible?

It happens in the Suttas.

Do you believe the Suttas or not?

Metta,
Paul.

[DNS]

There's this and several like it:
https://vbgnet.org/dhammavuddho-mahathera/

but I'm not sure how the Malaysian lineages work. On the "soul" issue, have a look at this PDF by Piya Tan, who I think is normally reliable:
https://www.themindingcentre.org/dharma ... -RB277.pdf

Okay, it appears he's part of the Maha Nikaya monastic order. I guess abbots of different viharas have some leeway if they deviate from the traditional Theravada orthodoxy (Classical position).