Theravada view of women

[Mahabrahma]

Suffering for gain. Is this a new concept?

[SecretSage]

I kinda agree women having periods and becoming pregnant is something that is not exactly desirable. ive never met a woman who said they loved thier periods and the Buddha mentions menstruation and childbirth as sufferings unique to women, which i think is 100% correct. Is it negative? yeah because suffering is bad, is it derogatory? i dont really think so its just kinda matter of fact kinda like that thieves targeting households of women thing. We shouldnt just pretend that women dont get periods or become pregnant....

Well my interpretation of this was that women born from a high caste Brahmin family are still considered as like low caste or outside of the caste system.
It's used as proof that the caste system is flawed.

[Mahabrahma]

Here is how the modern Bhagavad Gita is stated:

Bg 9.32: O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth-women, vaiśyas [merchants], as well as śūdras [workers]-can approach the supreme destination.

Bg 9.33: How much greater then are the brāhmaṇas, the righteous, the devotees and saintly kings who in this temporary miserable world engage in loving service unto Me.

So in Hinduism there is a level of adjustment that is still needed to make women strived equally respected as men. Much of Buddhism has already made these strides, especially Zen, Vajrayana, and Nichiren Buddhism.

[TRobinson465]

I kinda agree women having periods and becoming pregnant is something that is not exactly desirable. ive never met a woman who said they loved thier periods and the Buddha mentions menstruation and childbirth as sufferings unique to women, which i think is 100% correct. Is it negative? yeah because suffering is bad, is it derogatory? i dont really think so its just kinda matter of fact kinda like that thieves targeting households of women thing. We shouldnt just pretend that women dont get periods or become pregnant....

Well my interpretation of this was that women born from a high caste Brahmin family are still considered as like low caste or outside of the caste system.
It's used as proof that the caste system is flawed.

I don't really read it as women are another caste. Just more. The problems run throughout every caste. These things exist in every caste.

Is there a reason you're compiling this list anyways?

[Radix]

It could be the case that women are better taught subliminally - i.e through teachings directed to men about women.

[Radix]

I'm trying to compile a list of Theravada suttas where The Buddha talks about women and their disposition.

This story is just the basis for a simile, but still relevant:

"Once, monks, in this same Savatthi, there was a lady of a household named Vedehika. This good report about Lady Vedehika had circulated: 'Lady Vedehika is gentle. Lady Vedehika is even-tempered. Lady Vedehika is calm.' Now, Lady Vedehika had a slave named Kali who was diligent, deft, & neat in her work. The thought occurred to Kali the slave: 'This good report about my Lady Vedehika has circulated: "Lady Vedehika is even-tempered. Lady Vedehika is gentle. Lady Vedehika is calm." Now, is anger present in my lady without showing, or is it absent? Or is it just because my work is neat that the anger present in my lady doesn't show? Why don't I test her?'

"So Kali the slave got up after daybreak. Then Lady Vedehika said to her: 'Hey, Kali!'

"'Yes, madam?'

"'Why did you get up after daybreak?'

"'No reason, madam.'

"'No reason, you wicked slave, and yet you get up after daybreak?' Angered & displeased, she scowled.

"Then the thought occurred to Kali the slave: 'Anger is present in my lady without showing, and not absent. And it's just because my work is neat that the anger present in my lady doesn't show. Why don't I test her some more?'

"So Kali the slave got up later in the day. Then Lady Vedehika said to her: 'Hey, Kali!'

"'Yes, madam?'

"'Why did you get up later in the day?'

"'No reason, madam.'

"'No reason, you wicked slave, and yet you get up later in the day?' Angered & displeased, she grumbled.

"Then the thought occurred to Kali the slave: 'Anger is present in my lady without showing, and not absent. And it's just because my work is neat that the anger present in my lady doesn't show. Why don't I test her some more?'

"So Kali the slave got up even later in the day. Then Lady Vedehika said to her: 'Hey, Kali!'

"'Yes, madam?'

"'Why did you get up even later in the day?'

"'No reason, madam.'

"'No reason, you wicked slave, and yet you get up even later in the day?' Angered & displeased, she grabbed hold of a rolling pin and gave her a whack over the head, cutting it open.

"Then Kali the slave, with blood streaming from her cut-open head, went and denounced her mistress to the neighbors: 'See, ladies, the gentle one's handiwork? See the even-tempered one's handiwork? See the calm one's handiwork? How could she, angered & displeased with her only slave for getting up after daybreak, grab hold of a rolling pin and give her a whack over the head, cutting it open?'

"After that this evil report about Lady Vedehika circulated: 'Lady Vedehika is vicious. Lady Vedehika is foul-tempered. Lady Vedehika is violent.'

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Women testing women (a lower ranked woman testing a higher ranked one, at that!), women beating up women, the volatile nature of reputation.

[Radix]

Well my interpretation of this was that women born from a high caste Brahmin family are still considered as like low caste or outside of the caste system.
It's used as proof that the caste system is flawed.

Used as such proof by whom?
Do you think the Buddha was some kind of socialist or egalitarian?

"Not by birth is one an outcast; not by birth is one a brahman. By deed one becomes an outcast, by deed one becomes a brahman.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .piya.html

The way I understand it, from the Buddha's perspective, the caste system is flawed insofar as the value of a person is ascribed to them by the particular circumstances of their birth, regardless of how they act.

But remember, whether one is reborn a man or a woman is due to one's past actions.

[befriend]

It seems like the majority of women like bad boys. Which I find weird. It makes me not want to get into a relationship. Some women say they like nice guys but not too nice.

[befriend]

This was a refreshing read. Women are attracted to heroes. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... r-bad-boys Sounds good for Buddhists

[Dhamma Chameleon]

In the majority of suttas you can change the main characters' gender without changing the essence or truth of the lesson. Remember the Buddha is illustrating the Dhamma rather than providing social commentary.

[SecretSage]

It seems like the majority of women like bad boys. Which I find weird. It makes me not want to get into a relationship. Some women say they like nice guys but not too nice.

This was a refreshing read. Women are attracted to heroes. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... r-bad-boys Sounds good for Buddhists

Who cares about what women are attracted to? The main teaching on the caste system was that any male of any caste is still viewed as like higher than any high caste female...they're like low class.

Women get rowdy, aggressive, argumentative, angry...it would've been better if Ananda never requested that they joined the order...we could've just had a happy healthy society with no violence and stuff.

[cappuccino]

it would've been better if Ananda never requested that they joined the order

better for who

[Sam Vara]

Who cares about what women are attracted to? The main teaching on the caste system was that any male of any caste is still viewed as like higher than any high caste female...they're like low class.

Women get rowdy, aggressive, argumentative, angry...it would've been better if Ananda never requested that they joined the order...we could've just had a happy healthy society with no violence and stuff.

Are you saying that our societies are not healthy and happy and are prone to violence because women were allowed to ordain?

[Dan74]

For sure.

My mother send me a little video (in Russian) soon after the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. In it a young girl asks her grandmother, "Granny, is it true that this war is women's fault?" "Of course it is, sweetie, ' says the Granny. "Just look at all these idiots we brought into this world."

And in the same way, women are also at fault for this conversation. Aren't they?

[Ceisiwr]

For sure.

My mother send me a little video (in Russian) soon after the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. In it a young girl asks her grandmother, "Granny, is it true that this war is women's fault?" "Of course it is, sweetie, ' says the Granny. "Just look at all these idiots we brought into this world."

And in the same way, women are also at fault for this conversation. Aren't they?