ordination advice

[salayatananirodha]

hi, so i've loosely been considering leaving lay life in order to develop spiritually
i'm unsure where a good place is to ordain. i don't want to be bound by extraneous duties and political drama.
i'm heavily influenced by early buddhism, and i especially like ven ñāṇananda (https://seeingthroughthenet.net)
i've been invited to talk to people who reside or frequent there, including monks and laymen. i haven't gotten around to it because i am not sure what i would ask and i don't want to waste their time. i'm not sure if they would invite me to reside there, but i could ask.

i've not formally declared my intention to ordain or become an anagārika, but i have experienced increasing waves of disinterest with affairs of the world. i've recently broken out in tears more than once thinking about how futile my existence is as a layperson - how nothing is worth gaining and it all culminates in death and dissolution.

i've studied discourses and would like to continue doing so, but i'd also like to have all the time i need to meditate, do jhāna, and attain stages of awakening.

this life i have here as a layperson i believe is causing me to undulate between objects of senses and the desire to self-annihilate.
if you want further details on my journey i can create another thread
main concerns are getting my mom to support and sustain herself and also my debt, which is comprised of both student loans and credit cards.

i would pay my debt totally off if i thought i could, but i don't see myself being able to. i don't have any marketable skills i know of, and i don't want to try to go back to school while working at the same time. i already feel like i lack personal time and have temporarily reduced my work hours to the risk of financial ruin. i don't have a particular field of study i'm passionate about anyway. the environment i'm in doesn't support being a contemplative, surrounded with noise and interpersonal conflicts.

i thought i did not want to try to escape lay life without conquering it, but as of late i think i would rather give up that battle.

the only career i see worth my time is to try and make an end of suffering. i would want to do everything i could to do this in my capacity as a monk or an anagārika or something else. i don't personally know, but it seems a lot of monasteries are less concerned with nibbāna in this lifetime. i would hate to run away from the world and end up disrobing because i did not like the community i found myself in. any advice?

[TRobinson465]

You can definitely try out short term ordinations thru Thai traditions to see which monastery you like first, and then pick the one you think fits you the best. Short term ordination's definitely the best experience you can get for testing the waters for actual lifelong ordination. Personally i dont think its a good idea to just flat out enter monkhood for life with no background on the particular monastery you plan on staying at. If you prefer Sri Lankan traditions or something where they dont really do short term ordinations, you can try being a live-in lay volunteer first.

But just so you know. theres actually a vinaya rule against ordaining somone with debt. Generally speaking this is not considered an issue in modern thailand for short term ordinations, so you can still try short term ordinations to test the waters with your current debt. i ordained with debt myself, but it was short-term so i knew i was going to come back to laylife and pay it off. But if you are planning on ordaining for good with the hope of ending the cycle of existence, youre not allowed to ordain with no set off ramp planned if you still owe people money.

[JamesTheGiant]

Aside from the debt problem, I encourage you to go for it!

When you are living at any random monastery you will meet a lot of people who will give advice about good monasteries to ordain at, so don't worry about not having enough knowledge of good places or the best teachers to ordain with. I think I stayed at about 6 different monasteries before I found one i really liked.

First stay at a monastery for a few months as a layperson, then longer, then maybe longer at a better monastery, then you'll know.

Over the Christmas holidays I spent 2 months at the New Zealand monastery and I'm booked in to stay for another 6 months starting soon. Long stays even as a layman are great! You live like a monk except without the robes and without the extra rules.

[Ceisiwr]

i'm heavily influenced by early buddhism, and i especially like ven ñāṇananda (https://seeingthroughthenet.net)
i've been invited to talk to people who reside or frequent there, including monks and laymen.

How do you contact his former monastery? I couldn’t find anything online.

[BKh]

i thought i did not want to try to escape lay life without conquering it, but as of late i think i would rather give up that battle.

FWIW, I think you conquer lay life by ordaining. If you meant perfect lay life, well that's kind of pointless.

I wish the advice to stay at a variety of monasteries to find one you liked didn't entail spending lots of money. I'd say checking out a bunch of places is ideal, but not really feasible for lots of people. And in places like Sri Lanka it can be very difficult to get the proper visa without being sponsored by the monastery you plan to ordain at, especially because (for now at least) it can only be acquired while living in your home country. So after six months of monastery hopping there is a chance you would have to go back home to apply for a visa.

My advice would be to first decide if you plan on this being a life long thing. Once you are on board with that, if you don't have the cash to travel around, try and find a place that will train you in the practical matters of living the monk life while at the same time having warm and friendly monks and teachers that care about the junior monks. Then just commit to that for five years. No place is going to be perfect and give you everything you want. But if you surround yourself with warm and friendly people it will make it much, much easier. Over that period of time you will learn to apply the Dhamma to difficult situations and how to prioritize the things you care about.

Then once you have a grounding in the fundamentals of monastic life (in all of its aspects) it will be much easier to find a place that is more your "ideal." And by then your ideal may very well have changed! As well, once you find your ideal place, then it is going to change. So learning to make do will be a valuable skill.

[TRobinson465]

I wish the advice to stay at a variety of monasteries to find one you liked didn't entail spending lots of money. I'd say checking out a bunch of places is ideal, but not really feasible for lots of people.

Yes excellent point. Many people who recommend that are very blessed to have made much Dana merit in the past and can thus do so with ease. It's not that expensive, especially for like an American going to a place with low costs of living like Sri Lanka or Thailand, but even for working class Americans it can be hard.

Alternatively you can try just scoping out temples of different traditions in your immediate area and seeing which tradition you think fits best with what you want. Then you can either ordain in your country if possible or at least narrow down which tradition you want to ordain in if u take the leap to doing it in Asia.

But as Bkh stated above. Some places will fit better than others but no place will match your ideal. So be aware of that.

[salayatananirodha]

i'm heavily influenced by early buddhism, and i especially like ven ñāṇananda (https://seeingthroughthenet.net)
i've been invited to talk to people who reside or frequent there, including monks and laymen.

How do you contact his former monastery? I couldn’t find anything online.

knssb at seeingthrough…
Also if anyone wants to donate them I use the Wise app

I want to respond to a couple of points, the first being I am reticent to participate in what is called temporary ordination. I’m afraid there could be demerit in that
The other point is I think western monasteries are much less likely to have alms gathering. I’d actually like to be authentic when it comes to having few possessions and not hoarding food
Thanks for the feedback so far everyone

[JamesTheGiant]

When is your next holiday? Book in a stay at a monastery for that holiday. Stop wavering and make the booking.

[TRobinson465]

I want to respond to a couple of points, the first being I am reticent to participate in what is called temporary ordination. I’m afraid there could be demerit in that

Why do u think that?

[Nicholas Weeks]

Buddha's counsel for a novice bhikkhu:

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/bud ... _sut01.htm