Are powers destined by karma?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Sha Bac
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Are powers destined by karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

The word IDDHI is used to denote supernormal powers. If a person has the karmic constitution, will the powers develop naturally? What about people who have no familiarity with meditation, yoga, or buddhism? Does a person's karma destin them to find buddhism and meditation if they have a predisposition to developing powers?

Isn't it the purpose of the powers to reach enlightenment with them? If that is so, wouldn't there have to be a karmic link between the agent, the powers, and Buddhist teaching? I've heard that those who find buddhism have practiced it in previous lives.
justindesilva
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by justindesilva »

Adam1234 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 12:28 am The word IDDHI is used to denote supernormal powers. If a person has the karmic constitution, will the powers develop naturally? What about people who have no familiarity with meditation, yoga, or buddhism? Does a person's karma destin them to find buddhism and meditation if they have a predisposition to developing powers?

Isn't it the purpose of the powers to reach enlightenment with them? If that is so, wouldn't there have to be a karmic link between the agent, the powers, and Buddhist teaching? I've heard that those who find buddhism have practiced it in previous lives.
Lord Buddha preached in bhava sutta that kama is the field and craving the moisture .
Again he had preached cetana bikkave kammam vadami meaning that intention increases kama. Hence kamma depending on intention bodhi or enlightenment has to be desired for within area ashtangika magga . First with samaditthi and samma sankappa or right intention , I believe builds up kama or the environment . Again one has to break obstacles with samma vayama and pave the way along with character (gathi,) of word and deeds, samma vacha samma vaya protecting life (samma ajiva) . Building up on Dana and sila one perfects bhavana samma sati and samma samadhi to extinct all kama to achieve bodhi enlightenment . This way kamma remains only the power of intention but a temporarary power of intention as long as upadana of DO continues.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by confusedlayman »

Adam1234 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 12:28 am The word IDDHI is used to denote supernormal powers. If a person has the karmic constitution, will the powers develop naturally? What about people who have no familiarity with meditation, yoga, or buddhism? Does a person's karma destin them to find buddhism and meditation if they have a predisposition to developing powers?

Isn't it the purpose of the powers to reach enlightenment with them? If that is so, wouldn't there have to be a karmic link between the agent, the powers, and Buddhist teaching? I've heard that those who find buddhism have practiced it in previous lives.
i think for humans need iddi only after 4th jhana.
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Sha Bac
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

justindesilva wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 2:18 am
Lord Buddha preached in bhava sutta that kama is the field and craving the moisture .
Again he had preached cetana bikkave kammam vadami meaning that intention increases kama. Hence kamma depending on intention bodhi or enlightenment has to be desired for within area ashtangika magga . First with samaditthi and samma sankappa or right intention , I believe builds up kama or the environment . Again one has to break obstacles with samma vayama and pave the way along with character (gathi,) of word and deeds, samma vacha samma vaya protecting life (samma ajiva) . Building up on Dana and sila one perfects bhavana samma sati and samma samadhi to extinct all kama to achieve bodhi enlightenment . This way kamma remains only the power of intention but a temporarary power of intention as long as upadana of DO continues.
I see what you did there.
SarathW
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by SarathW »

In Indian religions, Siddhis (Sanskrit: सिद्धि siddhi; fulfillment, accomplishment) are material, paranormal, supernatural, or otherwise magical powers, abilities, and attainments that are the products of yogic advancement through sādhanās such as meditation and yoga.[1] The term ṛddhi (Pali: iddhi, "psychic powers") is often used interchangeably in Buddhism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi#:~ ... Siddhis%20(Sanskrit,such%20as%20meditation%20and%20yoga.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
humanshavenomerit
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by humanshavenomerit »

Powers are a measurement of jhana. So if you don't possess any powers, you haven't reach jhana.
whynotme
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by whynotme »

humanshavenomerit wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 4:29 am Powers are a measurement of jhana. So if you don't possess any powers, you haven't reach jhana.
Power and jhana is not a must together. In sutta it said when a bodhisattva was born he had divine eye which can see far around him. This is clearly power based on kamma not jhana. Many humans have special abilities without jhana like seeing or hearing spirit etc. So jhana is not a must for power

It's like if u learn about electricity you can make electric but it can happens accidentally like when you got friction on clothes.

Or you can make a deal with devil.
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Sha Bac
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by Sha Bac »

whynotme wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:43 pm Or you can make a deal with devil.
Say more...
whynotme
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by whynotme »

Adam1234 wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 12:15 am
whynotme wrote: Mon May 22, 2023 3:43 pm Or you can make a deal with devil.
Say more...
It seems spirits can use a body as a medium so the host person can feel or see or act like someone has supernatural abilities. Especially mara can use that body, e.g to make a person think he is a noble one.
So if you are useful to mara then it can be granted pseudo magical abilities.

For example a good computer can run demanding applications on its own processor. But a weak computer which can not run such an app can run through cloud service where another strong processor runs the app while sending the result back. It makes the weak computer look like a strong computer.

A normal person can deal with devil aka mara so mara acts as the cloud service and the normal person can display unnatural abilities whereas this person can not do on his own. But to be chosen by mara is not simple, a person might be very ordinary but must be useful to some purposes for the devil. And the devil will protect its minion to some extent.
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TRobinson465
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by TRobinson465 »

I believe in the vissudhimagga, Buddhaghosa explains that iddhi has to be developed overtime by specialized meditation techniques, but the Buddha and his top disciples got them right upon enlightenment due to thier immense merit.

In reality, most things are caused by kamma, including your predisposition for meditation and Buddhism. So you could say kamma plays a role in the development of iddhi in pretty much all cases, even if it is not necessarily destined. As its not like some random yogi or monk achieves iddhi powers just out of sheer hard work and coincidence. Even if they did work hard for it, there were karmic factors involved with how they got involved with meditation to begin with.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
Bundokji
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by Bundokji »

Powers are not only destined by kamma, but by the five niyamas. The predisposition to explain powers in terms of kamma is caused by preoccupation in future states.

For example, birds have the power to fly which is better explained by bīja niyama than kamma niyama. In the context of the teachings, iddhis are often described in terms of "transcending the human" to beware of the benchmark. More often than not, powers constitute limitations as well as abilities. Some devas can have powers that appear natural to them, but can be developed by humans through mediums such as technology (or technique).
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
justindesilva
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by justindesilva »

Bundokji wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 5:40 am Powers are not only destined by kamma, but by the five niyamas. The predisposition to explain powers in terms of kamma is caused by preoccupation in future states.

For example, birds have the power to fly which is better explained by bīja niyama than kamma niyama. In the context of the teachings, iddhis are often described in terms of "transcending the human" to beware of the benchmark. More often than not, powers constitute limitations as well as abilities. Some devas can have powers that appear natural to them, but can be developed by humans through mediums such as technology (or technique).
With an indepth study of kamma and sankara there is reason to believe that flying of birds and development of feathers is not just bija niyama . Analsing bhava sutta through Anguttara nikaya 1page 297(?) abhisankara is explained in depth . Abhisankara is three fold punya, apunya and neutral , which caused our kamma to build up ones limbs . Blindness , sight , touch etc are all due to abhisankara , if one could contemplate on it . Hence feathers are along with abhisankara . Even kayasankara (involuntary activated muscles ) is connected with Abhisankara. What I wish to finally say is that panca niyama darma are all intercontinented . Angutttara nikaya (page 297 or 397) has an explanation to detail on this .
justindesilva
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by justindesilva »

Bundokji wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 5:40 am Powers are not only destined by kamma, but by the five niyamas. The predisposition to explain powers in terms of kamma is caused by preoccupation in future states.

For example, birds have the power to fly which is better explained by bīja niyama than kamma niyama. In the context of the teachings, iddhis are often described in terms of "transcending the human" to beware of the benchmark. More often than not, powers constitute limitations as well as abilities. Some devas can have powers that appear natural to them, but can be developed by humans through mediums such as technology (or technique).
With an indepth study of kamma and sankara there is reason to believe that flying of birds and development of feathers is not just bija niyama . Analsing bhava sutta through Anguttara nikaya 1page 297(?) abhisankara is explained in depth . Abhisankara is three fold punya, apunya and neutral , which caused our kamma to build up ones limbs . Blindness , sight , touch etc are all due to abhisankara , if one could contemplate on it . Hence feathers are along with abhisankara . Even kayasankara (involuntary activated muscles ) is connected with Abhisankara. What I wish to finally say is that panca niyama darma are all intercontinented . Angutttara nikaya (page 297 or 397) has an explanation to detail on this .
Bundokji
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Re: Are powers destined by karma?

Post by Bundokji »

justindesilva wrote: Tue May 23, 2023 9:22 am With an indepth study of kamma and sankara there is reason to believe that flying of birds and development of feathers is not just bija niyama . Analsing bhava sutta through Anguttara nikaya 1page 297(?) abhisankara is explained in depth . Abhisankara is three fold punya, apunya and neutral , which caused our kamma to build up ones limbs . Blindness , sight , touch etc are all due to abhisankara , if one could contemplate on it . Hence feathers are along with abhisankara . Even kayasankara (involuntary activated muscles ) is connected with Abhisankara. What I wish to finally say is that panca niyama darma are all intercontinented . Angutttara nikaya (page 297 or 397) has an explanation to detail on this .
Thank you for the elaboration.

In bhava sutta, it is mentioned:

kammaṁ khettaṁ, viññāṇaṁ bījaṁ, taṇhā sneho

Hence abilities, whether abhisankhara or otherwise, are no less inherited than developed. As you said, the five niyamas are interconnected, but the emphasis on kamma seems to be future oriented.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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