Connecting Buddhism With Modern Psychotherapy

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Bundokji
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Re: Connecting Buddhism With Modern Psychotherapy

Post by Bundokji »

Kumara wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:30 am
Bundokji wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:41 pm I like this part:
Sigmund Freud famously said that “The aim of psychoanalysis is to relieve people of their neurotic unhappiness so that they can be normally unhappy. That was more than 100 years ago. Nowadays, psychotherapy does much better, in that it’s able to relieve people of lesser unhappiness. ”
You quoted wrongly. Here's the correct version:
Sigmund Freud famously said that “The aim of psychoanalysis is to relieve people of their neurotic unhappiness so that they can be normally unhappy.” That was more than 100 years ago. Nowadays, psychotherapy does much better, in that it’s able to relieve people of lesser unhappiness.
Thank you for the correction. I copied the two halves of the quote separately, so the quotation marks were wrong. In fact, i thought that what was after the quotation marks your own words.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
Sha Bac
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Re: Connecting Buddhism With Modern Psychotherapy

Post by Sha Bac »

I once read that only after a person has undergone 100 hours of psychotherapy are they ready to begin a meditation program.

You have to be clear why you're practicing. If you've got a lot of mental problems or unfulfilled potential you may be practicing to escape. Then when you sit, these lurking psychological problems prevent you from reaching deeper states of meditation. Or in post meditation, the afflictions may be stronger if you're practicing for the wrong reasons.
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Radix
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Re: Connecting Buddhism With Modern Psychotherapy

Post by Radix »

pegembara wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:50 am Changing to a first-class cabin on the Titanic comes to mind.
/.../
If you are someone who lives below deck, all that you ever dream of is to get on deck and nothing more.
I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me that it's possible to be poor and yet be skeptical about the possible benefits of wealth. It's not common, and a poor person showing such skepticism is usually written off as lazy and sougraping.
Western Buddhism is the perfect ideological supplement to rabid consumerist capitalism.
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pegembara
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Re: Connecting Buddhism With Modern Psychotherapy

Post by pegembara »

Radix wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:32 pm
pegembara wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 12:50 am Changing to a first-class cabin on the Titanic comes to mind.
/.../
If you are someone who lives below deck, all that you ever dream of is to get on deck and nothing more.
I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me that it's possible to be poor and yet be skeptical about the possible benefits of wealth. It's not common, and a poor person showing such skepticism is usually written off as lazy and sougraping.
It is not about wealth per se but about making your life as liveable as possible ie. first class cabin.
Below deck(poor living conditions) also refers to those who has physical disability, living under constant threat of war, disease and hunger.
A skeptical or cynical person who doesn't even practise virtue and moralilty is in an even worse state. They are just too involved with their daily preoccupations- let alone embark on the spiritual path. Too much dust in their eyes as it were.

In a way psychotherapy helps to remove some of the dust from their eyes.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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Kumara
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Re: Connecting Buddhism With Modern Psychotherapy

Post by Kumara »

Adam1234 wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:11 pm I once read that only after a person has undergone 100 hours of psychotherapy are they ready to begin a meditation program.
That's aimed at people with clinical issues.
You have to be clear why you're practicing. If you've got a lot of mental problems or unfulfilled potential you may be practicing to escape. Then when you sit, these lurking psychological problems prevent you from reaching deeper states of meditation. Or in post meditation, the afflictions may be stronger if you're practicing for the wrong reasons.
That's in some way true.

The way I teach isn't about concentration, which is what people escape into. First, I teach them how to gain a basic level of composure (which is the real meaning of "samadhi"). When the yogi has managed that, then I lead them to face their issues.
Bundokji
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Re: Connecting Buddhism With Modern Psychotherapy

Post by Bundokji »

Radix wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 8:32 pm I'm not so sure about that. It seems to me that it's possible to be poor and yet be skeptical about the possible benefits of wealth. It's not common, and a poor person showing such skepticism is usually written off as lazy and sougraping.
I guess with the underlying tendency to pathologize, the rule becomes "guilty until proven innocent" or in spiritual terms "the guilt of existence". For example, it is a better proof of enlightenment to renounce the world from the peak of worldly success, as with prince siddhartha, avoiding any suspicions of interpreting behavior though "the wrong reasons", or in the language of cognitive biases "“sour-grape effect”.

There is a story about an ancient philosopher who stood for such accusations, that philosophers live the way they do because of their lack of skill in material success. As i remember, he descended from his ivory tower of wisdom and used his knowledge of the seasons, making a deal that generated a lot of money, to donating it later on and to silence the critics.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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