What is jhana's nutriment?

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Dhammapardon
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What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by Dhammapardon »

Hello friends,

What is jhana's nutriment? How is that nutriment cultivated? Is it different nutriment for rupa and arupa jhana?

I'm not certain the factors of jhana are the nutriment because removing many of them from 1st jhana lead to higher jhanas rather than cessation of jhana.

:thanks:
Last edited by Dhammapardon on Sat May 27, 2023 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
ssasny
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Re: What is jhana's nutrement?

Post by ssasny »

Hi,

I’m not sure if the term ‘nutriment’ is used, but traditionally the jhanic factors are said to arise when the 5 hindrances pause. Which can happen through the cultivation of sila (wholesome behavior).
Dhammapardon
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Re: What is jhana's nutrement?

Post by Dhammapardon »

ssasny wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 4:04 pm Hi,

I’m not sure if the term ‘nutriment’ is used, but traditionally the jhanic factors are said to arise when the 5 hindrances pause. Which can happen through the cultivation of sila (wholesome behavior).
Hey ssasny. I haven't come across the term nutriment being used for jhana before but understand things that come into being arise and are sustained through providing nutriment and cease through stopping nutriment. Jhana may be similar as a thing that comes into being through providing nutriment and stops being when stopping nutriment.

The five hindrances for example: sense desire arises and persists through giving rise-to and continued attention to desire ideas, ill will arises and persists through giving rise-to and continued attention to ill will ideas, sloth arises and persists through giving rise-to and continued attention to material comforts and security, restlessness arises and persists through giving rise-to and continued attention to discomforts and insecurity, doubt arises and persists through giving rise-to and continued attention to delusion or not comprehending. Not giving rise-to or attention to those ideas and things will stop nutriment to those things and they will starve and die.

If jhanic factors arise when 5 hindrances pause, could the nutriment possibly come from what was sustaining the 5 hindrances?
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
santa100
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Re: What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by santa100 »

Dhammapardon wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 3:58 pm Hello friends,

What is jhana's nutriment? How is that nutriment cultivated? Is it different nutriment for rupa and arupa jhana?

I'm not certain the factors of jhana are the nutriment because removing many of them from 1st jhana lead to higher jhanas rather than cessation of jhana.

:thanks:
The Four Nutriments cover such a broad scope that it can be applied to the jhanas also since they'd still involve feeling, consciousness, physicality, etc. (at least for those lower level jhanas).
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confusedlayman
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Re: What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by confusedlayman »

wanting is nutrient , if someone want to enter 1st jhana they enter based on intent. so they "want" to enter 1st jhana so they wanting is nutrient. I dont understand what nutrient word means
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
ssasny
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Re: What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by ssasny »

The word ‘nutriment’ is a somewhat clumsy attempt to translate the Pali word āhāra, which in its simplest sense means ‘food’. But the word is used in the suttas, as you know, in a broader sense to imply that which fuels a result.

So in simple ordinary language, we can say that behaviors and habits give rise to various outcomes, and in order to cause a different outcome from the one we are accustomed to we have to change our behavior patterns.

If a person wishes to cultivate samadhi, one needs to create the conditions that allow it to happen. It’s much more of an outcome of conditions than a technique which can be practiced.
Dhammapardon
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Re: What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by Dhammapardon »

confusedlayman wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 7:46 pm wanting is nutrient , if someone want to enter 1st jhana they enter based on intent. so they "want" to enter 1st jhana so they wanting is nutrient. I dont understand what nutrient word means
I think you're probably right. Wanting to get there but also knowing how to get there and having right conditions to get there like ssasny mentions.
ssasny wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:36 pm If a person wishes to cultivate samadhi, one needs to create the conditions that allow it to happen. It’s much more of an outcome of conditions than a technique which can be practiced.
What would be the right conditions that would allow samadhi to be cultivated?
Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.(DN11)
BrokenBones
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Re: What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by BrokenBones »

"The Blessed One said: "Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions."

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Is one way of looking at things.

The seven enlightenment factors... mindfulness, investigation of Dhamma, effort, joy, tranquility, samadhi and equanimity is another...

“Bhikkhus, this is the forerunner and precursor of the rising of the sun, that is, the dawn. So too, bhikkhus, for a bhikkhu this is the forerunner and precursor of the arising of the seven factors of enlightenment, that is, good friendship. When a bhikkhu has a good friend, it is to be expected that he will develop and cultivate the seven factors of enlightenment.
“And how does a bhikkhu who has a good friend develop and cultivate the seven factors of enlightenment? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of mindfulness, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release…. He develops the enlightenment factor of equanimity, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend develops and cultivates the seven factors of enlightenment.”


https://suttacentral.net/sn46.12/en/bod ... ight=false
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Ceisiwr
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Re: What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by Ceisiwr »

Dhammapardon wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 3:58 pm Hello friends,

What is jhana's nutriment? How is that nutriment cultivated? Is it different nutriment for rupa and arupa jhana?

I'm not certain the factors of jhana are the nutriment because removing many of them from 1st jhana lead to higher jhanas rather than cessation of jhana.

:thanks:
Virtue, sense-restraint, contentment and good surroundings.
“Knowing that this body is just like foam,
understanding it has the nature of a mirage,
cutting off Māra’s flower-tipped arrows,
one should go beyond the King of Death’s sight.”
ssasny
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Re: What is jhana's nutriment?

Post by ssasny »

Yes
quite simple, but far from easy to actually do.
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