Dreams and Kamma

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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jwstone
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Dreams and Kamma

Post by jwstone »

I've always been fascinated by dreams. Is there a Buddhist idea of where they come from? What is their purpose?
Also, are we karmically responsible for the contents of our dreams? Many times, things in my dreams I would NEVER do in the waking world.
dharmacorps
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by dharmacorps »

I'm not aware of the Buddha discussing the origin of dreams in anywhere in the Pali canon. I have heard a few monks say that for the most part, dreams are normal and the result of stress. Just another phenomena that impermanent, suffering, and not self.
Bundokji
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by Bundokji »

My worthless two cents:

Dreams are connected to the mind-body duality. The mind (heavens) will always have to somehow descend to save the body (earth). Both have sexual connotations (roles to play): reaching puberty for a male typically happens due to a wet dream, whereas earth calls for it (through the wet dream) to stop the bleeding by impregnating her (the bleeding from the vagina aka period (time)). The newly born (the meeting of the two or the third) somehow escaped the cycle of death, for a time, before the appearance of a new bodhisatta, which is always a process in the making.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
whynotme
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by whynotme »

Before enlightened the Buddha dreamed iirc 4 dreams and explained it in the sutta. It seems every Buddha dreamed their symbol of enlightened before awaken. So it seems a way the kamma shows itself.

But there are many sources for the dream beside prophecy. I dreamed many times things will happen but not according to the scale as I dreamed, so I never take it seriously. Bc I know there are many problems sticking with unreliable information.

But from what I know, dream is the state closest to the spirits. It is similar to light of the stars. In the day light, while the stars still shining as at night but it can not be seen because the sun light is too strong.

In the same way, the invisible spiritual world is always visible to every individual, but the image or sensor from material body is much stronger then and so the spiritual world can not be seen.

But in the dream, the mind learned how to suppress bodily sensors so it is much easier for weak information to show clearly. But OTOH this stream of information is not reliable bc many sources they come from. The dream could be coming from internal source like daily subconscious memory or from external sources like other spirits want to communicate or take control or universal kamma etc...

So meditation is something similar to a dream, where the mind learned the process of suppressing bodily sensors and filter other subconscious memory, then the mental state of the environment is showed.
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santa100
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by santa100 »

jwstone wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:38 pm Also, are we karmically responsible for the contents of our dreams? Many times, things in my dreams I would NEVER do in the waking world.
Yes, the contents of one's dreams can be controlled:
AN 11.15 wrote:“Bhikkhus, when the liberation of the mind by loving-kindness has been pursued, developed, and cultivated, made a vehicle and basis, carried out, consolidated, and properly undertaken, eleven benefits are to be expected. What eleven?

(1) “One sleeps well; (2) one awakens happily; (3) one does not have bad dreams; (4) one is pleasing to human beings; (5) one is pleasing to spirits; (6) deities protect one; (7) fire, poison, and weapons do not injure one; (8) one’s mind quickly becomes concentrated; (9) one’s facial complexion is serene; (10) one dies unconfused; and (11) if one does not penetrate further, one fares on to the brahmā world.
SarathW
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by SarathW »

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
TRobinson465
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by TRobinson465 »

Most dreams are nothing more than plain dreams from the subconcoius afaik. But some Buddhism proclaims that some dreams are indeed prophetic. Particularly strange dreams that are particularly memorable such as the 16 dreams of king pasanedi or the bodhissattas dreams mentioned above. We are not karmically responsible for dreams i dont think, unless you constantly have night terrors or something than that might be some kind of karma.
"Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism" - the 14th Dalai Lama

"The Blessed One has set in motion the unexcelled Wheel of Dhamma that cannot be stopped by brahmins, devas, Maras, Brahmas or anyone in the cosmos." -Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta
SarathW
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by SarathW »

One full moon night, sleeping in the palace, the queen had a vivid dream. She felt herself being carried away by four devas (spirits) to Lake Anotatta in the Himalayas. After bathing her in the lake, the devas clothed her in heavenly cloths, anointed her with perfumes, and bedecked her with divine flowers. Soon after a white elephant, holding a white lotus flower in its trunk, appeared and went round her three times, entering her womb through her right side. Finally the elephant disappeared and the queen awoke, knowing she had been delivered an important message, as the elephant is a symbol of greatness in Nepal. The next day, early in the morning, the queen told the king about the dream. The king was puzzled and sent for some wise men to discover the meaning of the dream.
https://www.jendhamuni.com/queen-maha-mayas-dream/
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
rybka3
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by rybka3 »

some Thai Ajaans have a lot to tell about dreams.
Ajaan Maha Bua's dream about his achievements:
After finishing my chants, I made my vow: the gist of which was that if my going out to meditate in line with my earlier vow would go smoothly and fulfill my aspirations, I wanted an unusual vision to appear to me, either in my meditation or in a dream. But if I’d be denied the chance to practice, or if having gone out I’d meet with disappointment, I asked that the vision show the reason why I’d be disappointed. On the other hand, if my departure was to fulfill my aspirations, I asked that the vision be extraordinarily strange and amazing. With that, I sat down to meditate. When no visions appeared during the long period I sat meditating, I stopped to rest.
As soon as I fell asleep, however, I dreamed that I was floating effortlessly above a vast celestial metropolis. Stretching beneath me as far as the eye could see was an extremely impressive sight. All the houses looked like royal palaces, shining brightly as they glittered in the sunlight, as though made of solid gold. I floated three times around the metropolis and then returned to earth. As soon as I returned to earth, I woke up. It was four o’clock in the morning. I quickly got up with a feeling of fullness and contentment in my heart, because while I floated around the metropolis, my eyes were dazzled by many strange and amazing sights. I felt happy and very pleased with my vision. I thought that my hopes were sure to be fulfilled. I had never before seen such an amazing vision, and one that coincided so nicely with my vow. I really marveled at my vision that night. Early the next morning, I went to take leave of the senior monk in charge of the monastery, who willingly gave me permission to go.
Ajaan Maha Bua's dream after meeting Ajaan Mun:
Several nights later, I had another amazing vision. I dreamed that I was fully robed, carrying my bowl and umbrella-tent and following an overgrown trail through the jungle. Both sides of the trail were a mass of thorns and brambles. My only option was to continue following the trail, which was just barely a path, just enough to give a hint of where to go.
Shortly I reached a point where a thick clump of bamboo had fallen across the trail. I couldn’t see which way to continue. There was no way around it on either side. How was I going to get past it? I peered here and there until I finally saw an opening, a tiny opening right along the path, just enough for me to squeeze my way through together with my bowl.
Since there was no other option, I removed my outer robe and folded it up neatly. I removed the bowl strap from my shoulder and crawled through the opening, dragging my bowl by its strap and pulling my umbrella-tent behind me. I was able to force my way through, dragging my bowl, my umbrella-tent and my robe behind me; but it was extremely difficult. I kept at it for a long time until I finally worked my way free. Then, I pulled my bowl until my bowl came through. I pulled my umbrella-tent and my robe, and they came through. As soon as everything was safely through, I put on my robe again, slung my bowl over my shoulder and told myself, “Now I can continue.”
I followed that overgrown trail for another 100 feet. Then, looking up, I suddenly saw nothing but wide-open space. In front of me appeared a great ocean. Looking across it, I saw no further shore. All I could see was the shore where I stood and a tiny island sitting way out in the distance, like a black speck on the edge of the horizon. I was determined to head for that island. As soon as I walked down to the water’s edge, a boat came up to the shore and I got in. The boatman didn’t speak to me at all. As soon as I got my bowl and other things in the boat and sat down, the boat sped out to the island, without my having to say a word. I don’t know how it happened. It just sped out to the island. There didn’t seem to be any disturbances or waves whatsoever. Gliding silently, we arrived in a flash – because, after all, it was a dream.
As soon as we reached the island, I got my things out of the boat and went ashore. The boat disappeared immediately, without my saying even a word to the boatman. I slung my bowl over my shoulder and climbed up the island. I kept climbing until I saw Ajaan Mun sitting on a small bench, pounding betel nut as he watched me climb towards him. “Mahā,” he said, “how did you get here? Since when has anyone come that way? How were you able to make it here?”
“I came by boat.”
“Oho. That trail is really difficult. Nobody dares to risk his life coming that way. Very well then. Now that you’re here, pound my betel for me.” He handed me his betel pounder, and I pounded away – chock, chock, chock. After the second or third chock, I woke up. I felt somewhat disappointed. I wished I could have continued with the dream to at least see how it ended.
The next morning, I went to tell my vision to Ajaan Mun. He interpreted it very well. “This dream,” he said, “is very auspicious. It shows a definite pattern for your practice. Follow the practice in the way that you’ve dreamed. In the beginning, it will be extremely difficult. You have to give it your best effort. Don’t retreat. The beginning part where you made it through the clump of bamboo: that’s the difficult part. The mind will make progress only to slip back, over and over again. So give it your best. Don’t ever retreat. Once you get past that, it’s all wide open. You’ll get to the island of safety without any trouble. That’s not the hard part. The hard part is here at the beginning.”
A deva told a woman to give Ajaan Lee food the next morning:
‘Last night, just before dawn, I dreamed that someone came and told
me to get up and fix some food. A dhutanga monk was going to come by on his alms round.’
Ajaan Lee's weird dreams:
At about 5 a.m. I dozed off for a moment and dreamed: The earth opened wide beneath
me, revealing a scattered heap of broken red bricks deep underground. Something inside me
said, ‘This is a spot where relics of the Buddha were once enshrined, but the shrine is now
nothing but a rubble of bricks underground. Therefore, you will have to help build a chedi
to enshrine relics of the Buddha after the festival celebrating 25 centuries of Buddhism.
Otherwise your old karma won’t be done with.’
This was followed by another dream: Once, in the distant past, the Sangha was planning
an important meeting in India, but after we had all agreed to the date, I hadn’t joined in the
meeting. The meeting concerned plans for a celebration of the Buddha’s relics. It was to be a
very important celebration, but I didn’t join in. So my friends placed a penalty on me: ‘In
the future you will have to gather relics of the Buddha and enshrine them in a chedi at one
place or another, for the sake of Buddhists yet to come.’ With this dream in mind, my
thoughts about going ahead with the festival celebrating 25 centuries of Buddhism grew
more and more earnest.
justindesilva
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by justindesilva »

TRobinson465 wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:55 am Most dreams are nothing more than plain dreams from the subconcoius afaik. But some Buddhism proclaims that some dreams are indeed prophetic. Particularly strange dreams that are particularly memorable such as the 16 dreams of king pasanedi or the bodhissattas dreams mentioned above. We are not karmically responsible for dreams i dont think, unless you constantly have night terrors or something than that might be some kind of karma.
Buddhist literature speaks of 16 dreams of king Pasenadhi of kosala where these dreams had been explained by lord budda as terrible events that will come true after 2500 years (1957AD) after lord buddas budda sasasana .
These had been in fact identified as been coming true in Asia and sri lanka and it has been depicted on pandolas as happening today politically and socially . I understand that these are drawn in pagodas of myanmar . One may address wikipedia and google as 16 dreams of king pasenadi of kosala for detailed description of such literature .
Dreams are often interpreted to be true when dreamed by people of good spiritual orientatation , perhaps a sign of clear vingnana surfacing during sleep .
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Sam Vara
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by Sam Vara »

jwstone wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:38 pm I've always been fascinated by dreams. Is there a Buddhist idea of where they come from? What is their purpose?
As per the posts above, there are certainly held to be prophetic or meaningful dreams which can be considered useful. But there is also a line of thinking in the suttas which presents dreams as unrelated to the real problems of waking life, something which will only lead us astray if we apply the same attitudes to them:
Sense desires, so have I said, bring little enjoyment, and much suffering and disappointment. The perils in them are greater. Sense desires are like bare bones, have I said; they are like a lump of flesh, like a torch of straw, like a pit of burning coals, like a dream
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .nypo.html
Their unguarded senses bring them loss,
Like a treasure hoard found in a dream.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .wlsh.html
Now suppose a man, when dreaming, were to see delightful parks, delightful forests, delightful stretches of land, & delightful lakes, and on awakening were to see nothing. In the same way, householder, a disciple of the noble ones considers this point: 'The Blessed One has compared sensuality to a dream, of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Here, dreams seem to be a telling example of the unreal, things not worth bothering with. And it's worth remembering that monks were forbidden to interpret dreams for lay people.
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confusedlayman
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by confusedlayman »

jwstone wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:38 pm I've always been fascinated by dreams. Is there a Buddhist idea of where they come from? What is their purpose?
Also, are we karmically responsible for the contents of our dreams? Many times, things in my dreams I would NEVER do in the waking world.
just brain producing thoughts due to electric impulse .. dream is not heaven or anything related to other realms.. it is just image video of combination and permutation of life events in earth of this life time and some creativity ... my 2 cents
I may be slow learner but im at least learning...
Ontheway
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by Ontheway »

The Four Causes of Dreams
Dreams are caused by these four causes:

(1) Due to disturbance of metabolism, like malfunctioning of biles, etc., one dreams frightful dreams, examples, falling down from the mountain, travelling in the sky with a frightened heart, being followed closely by beasts of prey, such as wild elephant, wild horse, lion, leopard, tiger, etc., or by evil persons.

(2) Because of experiences of the past, one dreams seeing, hearing and using objects one had seen, heard or used before.

(3) All kinds of illusory objects are made manifest by devas in one’s dream, a good vision if they want to do one a good turn, or a bad vision if they want to do him an ill turn. One sees all these objects through the supernormal powers of devas.

(4) When one experiences a dream of omen, one sees pleasant or unpleasant visions that predict coming event because of one’s past good or evil deeds. Such dreams are like the dream of Mahā Māyā Devī which foretold the conception of a son or like that of King Kosala which presaged the sixteen great events or like the Five Great Dreams of the Bodhisatta.
- The Great Chronicle of Buddhas
https://www.wisdomlib.org/buddhism/book ... 64449.html
Hiriottappasampannā,
sukkadhammasamāhitā;
Santo sappurisā loke,
devadhammāti vuccare.

https://suttacentral.net/ja6/en/chalmer ... ight=false
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jwstone
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by jwstone »

Sometimes I have dreams about people I have never met in waking life. Their details are extremely clear, like they could definitely exist in the waking world. I always wonder if they do exist somewhere else on some level.
Bundokji
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Re: Dreams and Kamma

Post by Bundokji »

jwstone wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:26 pm Sometimes I have dreams about people I have never met in waking life. Their details are extremely clear, like they could definitely exist in the waking world. I always wonder if they do exist somewhere else on some level.
If they can be described, then they have to be within the six senses as per Sabba Sutta:
The Blessed One said, "What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.
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