Help with depression

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karuna4
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:38 pm

Re: Help with depression

Post by karuna4 »

Thank you to everybody for your kind responses. I guess I will need to reflect a bit more on my situation to find a way forward - I am in a particular situation which I think that I may need to change as I am not really developing much spiritually.
bpallister
Posts: 662
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:13 am

Re: Help with depression

Post by bpallister »

you might look into taking saffron and/or kanna (sceletium tortuosm). they seem helpful to me as an alternative to traditional medicines like SSRIs. I hope you feel better soon.
Nanny85
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:45 am

Re: Help with depression

Post by Nanny85 »

I feel your pain reading through your post, and it's indeed a challenging situation to be in. You might want to consult with a mental health professional about medications and ensure you're guided through any potential side effects.
Aman
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:19 pm

Re: Help with depression

Post by Aman »

karuna4 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:59 pm Hello all, I have been struggling with depression and anxiety now for many years. I tried anti-depressants when I was younger but did not find them helpful as they had a bad effect on my memory and my behavior. I have also tried therapy and have had a number of very helpful and wise people trying to help me with my problems. However, I am now feeling worse than ever, even though I have been a practicing Buddhist for more than 10 years. I have tried meditating and reflecting on the painful feelings and this did not help to shift anything. Conversely, I have tried the opposite approach of trying to develop wholesome thoughts but have not had much success with this. I have also tried to keep the precepts for the last 10 years, although I have not made much headway with anger, especially towards myself.

I feel like I am coming to a dead-end as nothing seems to be helping and my life situation seems to be getting out of hand as I have made a number of bad decision lately. I am thinking about talking medication again but am worried about the side-effects. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

With Metta
Don't take medication. All SSRIs do is keep serotonin outside of the nerve cells longer. Long term effects of taking these medications include things sexual dysfunction, weight gain and sleep disturbance.

Also, I've heard somewhere that around 80% of depressed people have raised cortisol levels.

You want a solution for both problems? SUGAR.

Yes, I kid you not, the one addiction nature intends humans to follow is their ability to find out and seek sugar for consumption.

Sugar lowers cortisol levels. The mechanism behind serotonin is a bit complicated, but tryptophan is a precursor for serotonin and this uptake into the brain when insulin levels are high. What causes the biggest insulin spike? You guessed it, SUGAR.

From evolutionary perspective, we've evolved to eat sugar and starch. Starchy foods, like potatoes, are absolutely perfect to make you feel good. Potatoes have got everything, it literally is a food from the gods.
Slightly Reserved
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2023 8:07 am

Re: Help with depression

Post by Slightly Reserved »

Hi karuna,

I can relate to your suffering and also have been battling back and forth with depression, anxiety, panic attacks and had suicidal thoughts since 11 years young. I have tried a lot of medicine, but none seemed to work long term. For 12 years I have been falling in and out from severe depressions that lasted up to 8 months and periods where I just stayed in my bed for all these months. It's been a long journey and what I can share with you is:

1. get physical exercise: go for a run, do yoga (i use an app), push weights or do anything physical to get your body moving. Do it regularly, and maybe set it as a daily routine for a 30-60 min workout. Just do it, whether you don't feel like doing it. It is good for your mind.
2. medicine: take it only being supervised by a professional in the field. A psychiatrist usually prescribes these kind of meds. Yes, basically all of them have side effects, not only short term memory loss, but also you might experience in the beginning more sleepiness, drowsiness, low libido or even increased thoughts of suicide. I experienced all of them. But in order for them to function at most, they need to be taken at least 6-8 weeks until something starts to change. And don't quit on medication if you feel better. Also if you are looking for antidepressants, as far as I know, most potent serotonin reuptaker is Paroxetine. (ive tried many of them). Don't think of side effects, the body gets used and the effects diminish.
3. therapy: well, i do it now, even though i look at it as a waste of money, but i try to do everything i can to help myself.
4. Meditation: 4 years ago i decided not to commit suicide regardless how i feel and renounce on this idea and i found meditation. After i went on my first retreat i thought - this is it, my cure, my medicine, my all. The practice really helped me a lot and I do it everyday, but it won't cure my mind's mental disorders and felt in depression again. And then again next year. Only this time I could manage better and force myself more to take care of myself.

I still meditate and will do it, but I can't be 100% in it as i understand that all religion concepts work if you truly believe (blindfully or not) in them.

Sound health and stay strong!
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Gwi II
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:49 am
Location: Indonesia 🇮🇩
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Re: Help with depression

Post by Gwi II »

karuna4 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:59 pm Hello all, I have been struggling with depression and anxiety now for many years. I tried anti-depressants when I was younger but did not find them helpful as they had a bad effect on my memory and my behavior. I have also tried therapy and have had a number of very helpful and wise people trying to help me with my problems. However, I am now feeling worse than ever, even though I have been a practicing Buddhist for more than 10 years. I have tried meditating and reflecting on the painful feelings and this did not help to shift anything. Conversely, I have tried the opposite approach of trying to develop wholesome thoughts but have not had much success with this. I have also tried to keep the precepts for the last 10 years, although I have not made much headway with anger, especially towards myself.

I feel like I am coming to a dead-end as nothing seems to be helping and my life situation seems to be getting out of hand as I have made a number of bad decision lately. I am thinking about talking medication again but am worried about the side-effects. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

With Metta
Try to do charity (alms), at least once a week,
and you can try "cāgānussati" meditation.
I suggest taking two meditations (like bilingual).

After giving, think again (as if thinking
about girlfriend [think all the time]).
Wise people live in the human realm to do
a lot of good--feelings are impermanent.


"Kiccho manussapaṭilābho,
Kicchaṃ maccāna jīvitaṃ.
Kicchaṃ saddhammassavanaṃ,
Kiccho Buddhānamuppādo." [Dhammapadaṃ 182].
Gwi: "There are only-two Sakaṽādins:
Theraṽādå&Ṽibhajjaṽādå, the rest are
nonsakaṽādins!"
ODKE938
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:02 pm

Re: Help with depression

Post by ODKE938 »

I think it really depends from person to person in order to help.

Like, some people could just need to get out and exercise and get some sun light, some people could just need to have a good work, maybe they have money problems, some people could have the problem because of bad kamma, maybe switching to a vegetarian diet can help since we are not causing harm to animals. Some people could just want to have a spouse, some people could just want to travel, some people could just be ignorant and couldn't understand or solve their own problems. So, I really don't know how to do help you, but I know the mainstream way and that is.

Keep helping others by doing good deeds (dana), keep sila (being virtious), and keep meditating. Dana, sila, Samadhi, this is the path to earning merit, and then devas will help you to be able to see and solve your problem, what ever problems you have, you will be able to solve it.

And you need to work, don't sit infront of computers all day, you need to work, we are humans, this is a realm of kamma, you are not animals that you can just eat and sleep, you are human, born in the world to do work.

And if you listen to my advice, please avoid psychiatrists, if you want to meet them, meet a psychologist or a counsellor instead, but if you can, avoid them as well, psychiatrist will just give you pills that will cause you more confusion and doubt about the truth and reality of life.

Have faith in Buddha, He is here to cure all suffering in the world, so your depression is very little. A monk once told me, don't go to psychiatrist, they will make you mad, another monk told me, go to doctor when you have body suffering, but when you have mental suffering, go to monks, not doctors. By taking their pills, you agree to believe all their views about suffering, which is full of wrong views. Who isn't mentally ill in the world? Everyone is, that's why the suicide rates of psychiatrists is 4 times more than average person. Psychiatrists would just create all types of diseases, in the end, you see everyone going to psychiatrists, because everyone is ill.

When I was a teenager, I thought I had social anxiety, but it was normal, I thought I had depression, but it was normal, I thought I had OCD, but it was normal, I thought I had agoraphobia, but it was normal, I made it a goal to visit a psychiatrist, but once I actually went by hiding the fact from my parents, when I visit them, they say a few words and just handed me pills, saying I have OCD, they did not help me at all, my mom threw the medicine away. These all psychiatrists are for people who don't understand dhamma or religion, religious people don't visit psychiatrists, they visit church and monastery, when you have God with you to cure your mental sickness, why visit these people?

Ok, God bless and do like I said, dana, sila and meditation, and find out what you want in life and work for it. Eat lesser, eating too much will cause depression as well, live in accordance with nature.

Want to share this mantra with you -

and this -

and this -

Life is amazing. An opportunity for you to do anything and be anything you want to.

You can message me if you want to chat with me.
user08
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:23 pm

Re: Help with depression

Post by user08 »

karuna4 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:59 pm Hello all, I have been struggling with depression and anxiety now for many years. I tried anti-depressants when I was younger but did not find them helpful as they had a bad effect on my memory and my behavior. I have also tried therapy and have had a number of very helpful and wise people trying to help me with my problems. However, I am now feeling worse than ever, even though I have been a practicing Buddhist for more than 10 years. I have tried meditating and reflecting on the painful feelings and this did not help to shift anything. Conversely, I have tried the opposite approach of trying to develop wholesome thoughts but have not had much success with this. I have also tried to keep the precepts for the last 10 years, although I have not made much headway with anger, especially towards myself.

I feel like I am coming to a dead-end as nothing seems to be helping and my life situation seems to be getting out of hand as I have made a number of bad decision lately. I am thinking about talking medication again but am worried about the side-effects. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

With Metta
I find it interesting that Buddhism claims to end all suffering, but the moment you bring up serious, real suffering, they often say "find a professional." This really undermines this religion's claims. However, in the case of mindfulness, what a Buddhist will tell you and what a professional will tell you is almost completely identical.

I personally had really horrible experiences with mental health professionals and so am left with only meditation to treat my suffering. The results of that are really irrelevant since what one person experiences is just one data point, and that isn't scientific. However, it's what I decided was best for me.

Have you experienced jhana? That made a huge difference to me and the effectiveness of my meditation in alleviating suffering. (There is some scientific research to back this up, where people who are religious tend to be happier.)
user08
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:23 pm

Re: Help with depression

Post by user08 »

karuna4 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:59 pm I have not made much headway with anger, especially towards myself.
Oh I should have also addressed the point about anger. I also have an anger problem (including towards myself), and I believe I've made some small improvements. Jhana may help, as I mentioned in the last post. It's basically a calming state you can go to at any time, and because it's so pleasurable, it's relatively easy to want to. However, when you're *really* angry, you're completely hijacked and may not care about jhana. In that case, you've probably already tried focusing on your breath, so I'll mention some other tricks I've been using recently.

Something Ajahn Geoff mentions is that anger isn't going to help you. It just clouds your mind, and if you're, for instance, frustrated about a problem, having a clear head is going to make it easier to solve the problem.

A monk whose name I can't remember said that an antidote to anger is compassion. I've tried it a bit and it does seem to help.

I've also started paying attention to the fact that when I'm angry, it feels terrible. I don't like feeling terrible, so as justified and righteous I may feel in my anger, if I'm able to recognize that it's causing me harm, I'm more willing to drop it. Interestingly, from what I gather from Ajahn Geoff, this pattern of thinking can take you all the way to nibbana: how am I causing stress and can I drop it?

I've started trying to remind myself that anger is completely unnecessary. Sometimes I'll just yell out into the void about what I'm frustrated about, and although I perhaps think that this will relieve my anger, it tends to exacerbate it. So why do I do it? It serves zero purpose.

Lastly, you can deconstruct the anger. As you likely know, the purpose of meditation is to slow the mind down so you can observe it. Usually, our perception goes like this: event -> anger. But in actuality, it goes like this: event -> thought -> anger. This is part of what Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is all about. However, where CBT is lacking, imo, is what to do about the thought. CBT seems to encourage you to engage in endless debates about the thought, which, for me, is completely unproductive. Mindfulness, however, seems to encourage you either to ignore or dismantle the thought completely. When you're angry (or feeling some other negative emotion), you may notice that there are certain thoughts or phrases that trigger the emotion. Can you observe those thoughts as just cognitive activity rather than getting swept up in engaging with them? I just tried this last night with feelings of anxiety, and although I felt wave after wave of panic, it felt more like I was riding them on a surfboard rather than getting tossed around in the waves.
Piyatissa
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:53 am

Re: Help with depression

Post by Piyatissa »

Maybe the approach your therapist used was not so effective? I also faced long-term depression, but therapy helped me a lot.

I experienced a terrible period of depression after my mom died. I went to individual counseling in NYC. My therapist helped me delve into my emotions, pinpointing areas of anger and anxiety. We worked through exercises that helped me develop self-compassion and control over my feelings.

It's a process, but sometimes a new perspective or method can create a breakthrough. Best of luck on your journey.
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