What does sangha mean to you?

[Scabrella]

"Furthermore, a noble disciple recollects the Saṅgha: ‘The Saṅgha of the Buddha’s disciples is practicing the way that’s good, direct, methodical, and proper. It consists of the four pairs, the eight individuals. This is the Saṅgha of the Buddha’s disciples that is worthy of offerings dedicated to the gods, worthy of hospitality, worthy of a religious donation, worthy of greeting with joined palms, and is the supreme field of merit for the world.’ When a noble disciple recollects the Saṅgha their mind is not full of greed, hate, and delusion. … This is called a noble disciple who lives in balance among people who are unbalanced, and lives untroubled among people who are troubled. They’ve entered the stream of the teaching and develop the recollection of the Saṅgha." - AN 6.10

Thank you. I just posted about this. The internet site BuddhaNet was accurate when it said Sangha is the Enlightened Community and not the Ship Of Fools.

how can I take refuge in a community that refuses me entry over face coverings?

Sounds like negligence because a face mask won't stop transmission in close proximity. If you think you will catch or spread a virus, you should stay home. This does not sound like Enlightened Community.

[thepea]

Is sangha the buddhist monastic community of monks and nuns?
Is this the only accepted definition of sangha here?

The internet says the Sangha originally was the Enlightened community.

In Buddhism it refers primarily to the community of saints and enlightened one's (Ariya Sangha), the third of the three Jewels and the three Refuges.

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dha ... /fdd42.htm

Yes, this is what I originally took refuge in. The enlightened community. The noble ones. Goenka always taught the dhamma was not a conversion to organized religion. There was no mention of any traditions ordained monks or nuns.

Goenka had mentioned that because of the past good deeds one finds the dhamma and begins the practice of looking at ones past life regressions(sankharas). I have come to see the mind not as an individual but rather a whole, where these ariya can assist. Mind is in every sub atomic particle. Apparently we each carry our own mind but ultimately mind is one.

[thepea]

Is sangha the buddhist monastic community of monks and nuns?
Is this the only accepted definition of sangha here?

When I took refuge in triple gem I was not informed of any Buddhist religious folk I was engaging within. And if this is who I take refuge in as sangha, how can I take refuge in a community that refuses me entry over face coverings?
Surely the rhinoceros sutta and its independent theme has a sangha to take refuge in that is free from political policies?

"Furthermore, a noble disciple recollects the Saṅgha: ‘The Saṅgha of the Buddha’s disciples is practicing the way that’s good, direct, methodical, and proper. It consists of the four pairs, the eight individuals. This is the Saṅgha of the Buddha’s disciples that is worthy of offerings dedicated to the gods, worthy of hospitality, worthy of a religious donation, worthy of greeting with joined palms, and is the supreme field of merit for the world.’ When a noble disciple recollects the Saṅgha their mind is not full of greed, hate, and delusion. … This is called a noble disciple who lives in balance among people who are unbalanced, and lives untroubled among people who are troubled. They’ve entered the stream of the teaching and develop the recollection of the Saṅgha." - AN 6.10

Thanks, see response to scabrells as it fits this too.

[Radix]

Sounds like some bad experiences with some bad monastics. They are human, not Buddhas. Fortunately, they are not needed on the Path.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Where is this bunch of people? When did this happen?

Stop sealioning.

[Sam Vara]

Sounds like some bad experiences with some bad monastics. They are human, not Buddhas. Fortunately, they are not needed on the Path.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Where is this bunch of people? When did this happen?

Stop sealioning.

I'm not. I'm accusing you of making this up. You frequently post about monasticism and Buddhism in general in a way that makes me think that your contact with real life monastics is minimal, or fantasised.

[dharmacorps]

Sam has shown great understanding of the dhamma over the years and presently. His attention on this thread and others is being wasted on those with something to prove.

Sam, don't feed them my friend.

[thepea]

Sounds like some bad experiences with some bad monastics. They are human, not Buddhas. Fortunately, they are not needed on the Path.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html

Where is this bunch of people? When did this happen?

Stop sealioning.

I'm not. I'm accusing you of making this up. You frequently post about monasticism and Buddhism in general in a way that makes me think that your contact with real life monastics is minimal, or fantasised.

What is sealioning? I read the online meaning and it’s seems like conversing? What exactly in simple language is the issue with “sealioning”?

[thepea]

Stop sealioning.

I'm not. I'm accusing you of making this up. You frequently post about monasticism and Buddhism in general in a way that makes me think that your contact with real life monastics is minimal, or fantasised.

What is sealioning? I read the online meaning and it’s seems like conversing? What exactly in simple language is the issue with “sealioning”?

Ok, I found a definition on Reddit.
Sam I hate to break it to you but you are a classic sealioner.

[Sam Vara]

I'm not. I'm accusing you of making this up. You frequently post about monasticism and Buddhism in general in a way that makes me think that your contact with real life monastics is minimal, or fantasised.

What is sealioning? I read the online meaning and it’s seems like conversing? What exactly in simple language is the issue with “sealioning”?

Ok, I found a definition on Reddit.
Sam I hate to break it to you but you are a classic sealioner.

You may well be right. Often, in your case, I ask lots of fairly tightly-phrased questions and requests because I need to know exactly what you are saying. You don't use English as I and others do, so it's not always clear whether you are breaching ToS or not.

But this is not about what Sangha means, is it?

[Noble Sangha]

"Sangha" is an important term with a rich and precise meaning. It stands for something truly extraordinary and brilliant that can constantly remind us of the highest and most excellent possibilities the Path has to offer. Let's use it well.

In recent decades, a new usage of the word has emerged in the West, one that seems to have no basis in classical Theravada Buddhist teachings: the usage of the word "sangha" to describe a meditation group or any sort of spiritual community.[1] It sounds innocent enough, but this particular usage can — and often does — lead to profound confusion concerning one of the most fundamental underpinnings of the Buddha's teachings, the going for refuge in the Triple Gem.

DN 2, MN 72, SN 51.15, AN 4.184, etc.

I looked through those sutta's, 2 of them doesn't mention anything about sangha.

The Pali word "sangha" literally means "group" or "congregation," but when it is used in the suttas, the word usually refers to one of two very specific kinds of groups: either the community of Buddhist monastics (bhikkhus and bhikkhunis), or the community of people who have attained at least the first stage of Awakening.

There are no 2 specific groups / kinds of the sangha. Only ariya's or people who have attained at least the first stage of awakening ARE CONSIDERED AS THE SANGHA. Doesn't matter if bhikkhus or bhikkhunis are used with the word sangha. If the word bhikkhus or bhikkhunis is used with the word "sangha", that means they are ariya's.

This is the same for the word "kalyana mitta", only ariya's are considered as kalyana mitta's. That's why kalyana mitta's are 100% of the path. When there are no more ariya's or kalyana mitta's alive, that's the end of the Buddha sasana for that time period.

This topic is one of the perfect examples that shows the today's decline of the Buddha sasana, teachers and practitioners of the Buddha dhamma.

[wenjaforever]

Can the deeper meaning of sangha be the mind?

Buddha did not create the sangha but rather established the sangha.
Establish meaning to found on a permanent basis. As his rediscovery of the eternal Nibanna.
The Buddha established the mind through rediscovery of its eternal quality Nibanna.

Sangha is just a means to transfer knowledge

[Mumfie]

Doesn't matter if bhikkhus or bhikkhunis are used with the word sangha. If the word bhikkhus or bhikkhunis is used with the word "sangha", that means they are ariya's.

From the Vinaya:

“Venerables, the four rules on defeat have been recited. If a bhikkhu commits any one of them, he is no longer part of the bhikkhusaṅgha.”

Which implies that the offender was part of the bhikkhusaṅgha before he committed a pārājika. Is it your view that an ariyan bhikkhu might commit a such an offence?

From the Kusinārasutta:

Then the Venerable Ānanda said to the Blessed One: “It is astounding and amazing, Bhante! I am confident that there is not a single bhikkhu in this saṅgha who has any doubt or uncertainty about the Buddha, the Dhamma, or the Saṅgha, about the path or the practice.”

“You speak out of confidence, Ānanda, but the Tathāgata knows this for a fact. For among these five hundred bhikkhus, even the least is a stream-enterer, no longer subject to rebirth in the lower world, fixed in destiny, heading for enlightenment.”
(AN10.44)

If it were the case that the bhikkhusaṅgha by definition consisted only of ariyans, then the above dialogue would be redundant. It would be merely a pointless exchange of tautologies:

“I’m confident, bhante, that all green grass is green!”

“Yup, Ānanda. And the Tathāgata knows it for a fact that green grass is green.”

[SarathW]

Doesn't matter if bhikkhus or bhikkhunis are used with the word sangha. If the word bhikkhus or bhikkhunis is used with the word "sangha", that means they are ariya's.

From the Vinaya:

“Venerables, the four rules on defeat have been recited. If a bhikkhu commits any one of them, he is no longer part of the bhikkhusaṅgha.”

Which implies that the offender was part of the bhikkhusaṅgha before he committed a pārājika. Is it your view that an ariyan bhikkhu might commit a such an offence?

From the Kusinārasutta:

Then the Venerable Ānanda said to the Blessed One: “It is astounding and amazing, Bhante! I am confident that there is not a single bhikkhu in this saṅgha who has any doubt or uncertainty about the Buddha, the Dhamma, or the Saṅgha, about the path or the practice.”

“You speak out of confidence, Ānanda, but the Tathāgata knows this for a fact. For among these five hundred bhikkhus, even the least is a stream-enterer, no longer subject to rebirth in the lower world, fixed in destiny, heading for enlightenment.”
(AN10.44)

If it were the case that the bhikkhusaṅgha by definition consisted only of ariyans, then the above dialogue would be redundant. It would be merely a pointless exchange of tautologies:

“I’m confident, bhante, that all green grass is green!”

“Yup, Ānanda. And the Tathāgata knows it for a fact that green grass is green.”

I like the first example and that proves your point.

The second one is not in my opinion.
The way I understand any person at least has attained a Sotapanna state.
So all the participants in the second example were Ariya.

[Mumfie]

The second one is not in my opinion.
The way I understand any person at least has attained a Sotapanna state.
So all the participants in the second example were Ariya.

The dialogue draws attention to the fact that all the bhikkhus in that particular bhikkhusaṅgha happened to be at least sotāpannas. But there would be no need for such highlighting if being ariyan were an attribute of all persons everywhere termed “bhikkhusaṅgha” (as alleged by Noble Disciple).

[Coëmgenu]

The terms people are looking for are "ariyasaṃgha" and "sammutisaṃgha."