I was reflecting recently that a sangha is a bit like a family - sometimes people can irritate the hell out of you, but beneath that is a special bond and responsibility. And hopefully it's a place where mistakes can be made and forgiven as people develop.
So, what does sangha mean to you? And how does an online sangha compare to one in the "real" world?
Spiny
What does sangha mean to you?
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
I think we need to define our terms.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
I mean sangha in the broad sense, applicable to lay-Buddhists as well as those in a community setting.Sanghamitta wrote:I think we need to define our terms.
Spiny
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
Some people would not accept that definition. For some its too broad.
I personally have no problem with it.
I think Sangha and sangha are of the essence, without them no Buddha and no Dhamma, They come as a package or not at all.
I remain unconvinced about the possibility of cyber sangha however. Too many basic components of social interactions are absent...vocal tone, expression, body language, etc. We are social beings who have evolved in particular ways to communicate all kinds of subtleties. To reduce that to written words on a page or to dancing pixels is to lose touch with vital elements of our essential humanity.
I personally have no problem with it.
I think Sangha and sangha are of the essence, without them no Buddha and no Dhamma, They come as a package or not at all.
I remain unconvinced about the possibility of cyber sangha however. Too many basic components of social interactions are absent...vocal tone, expression, body language, etc. We are social beings who have evolved in particular ways to communicate all kinds of subtleties. To reduce that to written words on a page or to dancing pixels is to lose touch with vital elements of our essential humanity.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.
Bhikku Bodhi.
Bhikku Bodhi.
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
I'd agree that an on-line sangha isn't a substitute for a real one. But I guess if there are people for whom face-to-face contact is difficult, then forums like this are better than nothing?Sanghamitta wrote: I remain unconvinced about the possibility of cyber sangha however. Too many basic components of social interactions are absent...vocal tone, expression, body language, etc.
Spiny
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
I don't really mind. I deliberately used a small "s" in sangha.Sanghamitta wrote:Some people would not accept that definition. For some its too broad.
Spiny
Re: What does sangha mean to you?
I don't think it's up to me to define sangha according to my preferences. So I agree with what John T. Bullitt says here:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... tml#sangha" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;I hear the word "sangha" used a lot these days in Buddhist circles. What does it really mean?
The Pali word "sangha" literally means "group" or "congregation," but when it is used in the suttas, the word usually refers to one of two very specific kinds of groups: either the community of Buddhist monastics (bhikkhus and bhikkhunis), or the community of people who have attained at least the first stage of Awakening. In recent decades, a new usage of the word has emerged in the West, one that seems to have no basis in classical Theravada Buddhist teachings: the usage of the word "sangha" to describe a meditation group or any sort of spiritual community.[1] It sounds innocent enough, but this particular usage can — and often does — lead to profound confusion concerning one of the most fundamental underpinnings of the Buddha's teachings, the going for refuge in the Triple Gem.
The act of going for refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha[2] marks a major turning point in one's spiritual development, the real start of the journey down the Buddhist path.[3] It helps foster a healthy attitude towards Buddhist practice by encouraging the development of right view, and serves as a constant reminder both of the goal of practice and of the means to achieve that goal. It is therefore crucial to be clear and precise about the meaning of the refuges, lest we end up heading down a road quite different from the one the Buddha had in mind.
In taking refuge in the Sangha, we set our inner sights on the ideal community of Noble Ones (ariya-sangha) — those monks, nuns, laywomen, and laymen who, throughout history, have by their own diligent efforts successfully carried out the Buddha's instructions and gained at least a glimpse of the supreme happiness of nibbana. If this is the direction in which we also wish to go, then it is to these individuals that we should turn for refuge:
The Sangha of the Blessed One's disciples who have practiced well... who have practiced straight-forwardly... who have practiced methodically... who have practiced masterfully — in other words, the four types [of noble disciples] when taken as pairs, the eight when taken as individual types — they are the Sangha of the Blessed One's disciples: worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings, worthy of respect, the incomparable field of merit for the world.
— AN 11.12
But going for refuge doesn't stop there. We are also asked to turn to the monastic community (bhikkhu-sangha) for refuge, for it is thanks to the unbroken lineage of this 2,600-year-old institution that we are fortunate enough today to be able to hear the teachings. Moreover, the living example of the monastic community serves to remind us of the immense value of generosity, of living a morally upright life, of renunciation — in short, it reminds us that it is indeed possible to live a life fully in tune with every aspect of the Buddha's teachings. In reality, of course, not every monk or nun necessarily lives up to the Buddha's high standards of conduct. For this reason it is to the institution of the Sangha that we turn to refuge, not to the individual members themselves. This is the Sangha to which lay people have turned since the time of the Buddha:
I go to Master Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, and to the Sangha of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge, from this day forward, for life.
— DN 2, MN 72, SN 51.15, AN 4.184, etc.
So it is these exceptional groups of people — the ariya-sangha and the bhikkhu-sangha — that define the Third Gem and Refuge; it is to these groups that we are asked to turn for refuge, not to some vaguely defined community of like-minded Dhamma friends and fellow meditators. In which group would you rather put your trust?
In an effort to resolve this confusion, some writers have proposed various alternatives to the word "sangha" to describe gatherings and communities of Dhamma companions.[4] But this still leaves me wondering why we must invoke the Pali language here at all. Does a meditation group really need a special name? Why not simply call it a "meditation group" and leave it at that?
"Sangha" is an important term with a rich and precise meaning. It stands for something truly extraordinary and brilliant that can constantly remind us of the highest and most excellent possibilities the Path has to offer. Let's use it well.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
For me, Dharma as the teachings represents the path. Those on the path are the Sangha.
Now having obtained a precious human body,
I do not have the luxury of remaining on a distracted path.
~ Tibetan Book of the Dead
I do not have the luxury of remaining on a distracted path.
~ Tibetan Book of the Dead
Re: What does sangha mean to you?
sangha or ariya sangha?
online sangha or online bhikkhu?
online sangha or online bhikkhu?
The most complete english tipitaka on the internet world. http://realtruthlife.blogspot.com .
Re: What does sangha mean to you?
If I take the Sangha as being the ordained and soon to be ordained (anagarika): they mean a lot to me, especially since last week when I stayed with them in Chithurst Buddhist Monastery
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.
If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments
- texasdhammastudent
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
"I take the Sangha as being the ordained and soon to be ordained (anagarika)"
I agree with this. I find it somewhat misleading when a group calls its self a Sangha when in fact it is a meditation group. I understand that it is being used in a community sense of the word, but when I am looking for Sangha, I look for the monks who have dedicated their lives to the dhamma. Peace and happiness be to all beings!
I agree with this. I find it somewhat misleading when a group calls its self a Sangha when in fact it is a meditation group. I understand that it is being used in a community sense of the word, but when I am looking for Sangha, I look for the monks who have dedicated their lives to the dhamma. Peace and happiness be to all beings!
- retrofuturist
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
Greetings,
Metta,
Retro.
Ditto (plus bhikkhunis). To me, the rest can be kalyana-mittas (spiritual friends) or as I heard it referred to yesterday, "Dharma buddies".texasdhammastudent wrote:"I take the Sangha as being the ordained and soon to be ordained (anagarika)"
I agree with this. I find it somewhat misleading when a group calls its self a Sangha when in fact it is a meditation group. I understand that it is being used in a community sense of the word, but when I am looking for Sangha, I look for the monks who have dedicated their lives to the dhamma. Peace and happiness be to all beings!
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: What does sangha mean to you?
For me there are different meanings of "sangha".Spiny O'Norman wrote:So, what does sangha mean to you? And how does an online sangha compare to one in the "real" world?
1. the sangha of practitioners (either lay or ordained)
2. the sangha that is refuge which is "all ariyas" (either lay or ordained)
Kind regards
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree that a group of lay-Buddhists who meet regularly aren't a sangha ( with a small "s" ).texasdhammastudent wrote:"I take the Sangha as being the ordained and soon to be ordained (anagarika)"
I agree with this. I find it somewhat misleading when a group calls its self a Sangha when in fact it is a meditation group. I understand that it is being used in a community sense of the word, but when I am looking for Sangha, I look for the monks who have dedicated their lives to the dhamma. Peace and happiness be to all beings!
Spiny
- Spiny O'Norman
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Re: What does sangha mean to you?
Good point about kalyana-mitra. However the Buddha told Ananda that friendship was the whole of the spiritual life, so isn't that an important aspect of what sangha is about?retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
Ditto (plus bhikkhunis). To me, the rest can be kalyana-mittas (spiritual friends) or as I heard it referred to yesterday, "Dharma buddies".texasdhammastudent wrote:"I take the Sangha as being the ordained and soon to be ordained (anagarika)"
I agree with this. I find it somewhat misleading when a group calls its self a Sangha when in fact it is a meditation group. I understand that it is being used in a community sense of the word, but when I am looking for Sangha, I look for the monks who have dedicated their lives to the dhamma. Peace and happiness be to all beings!
Metta,
Retro.
Spiny