the great vegetarian debate

[Coëmgenu]

Saying that "meat" means "food" is an etymological fallacy. "Meat" comes from the Old English "mete," that being a general term for foods. The modern English word "meat" always refers to food that was formerly a living animal.

[thepea]

?

Vegans don't eat meat; they don't even eat animal products.

This is incorrect.
The definition of meat is food used to sustain life.
But correct vegans do not eat animals.

I moved our last few posts to the great veg debate, as this is getting back into the age-old debate more than the poll in the other thread.

Certainly, I was merely looking to discern between meat and animal flesh.

[thepea]

Saying that "meat" means "food" is an etymological fallacy. "Meat" comes from the Old English "mete," that being a general term for foods. The modern English word "meat" always refers to food that was formerly a living animal.

Oxford dictionary defines meat as food to sustain life.

[Coëmgenu]

That is a very antiquated and recherché usage. You can refer to the typically-eaten section of an apple as "the meat of the apple" as opposed to "the seeds of the apple," but this is an antiquarian usage of the term. We can also say "the meat of the matter" and we're not referring to food at all necessarily.

[thepea]

All living beings must ingest life to sustain life. Killing is part of living.
Eating animal flesh is taking one body and one consciousness, it is no different than swatting a mosquito or eradicating a beetle from a cucumber plant.
Killing is part of life and it’s unavoidable. To hold the view one must not kill is extreme and causes stress which is not freedom.
Better to see clearly with wisdom and cultivate peace with eating and the killing it takes to sustain the body.
Be thankful for your daily bread.

[DNS]

Killing is part of life and it’s unavoidable. To hold the view one must not kill is extreme and causes stress which is not freedom.

This is not the Buddhist view. Even those Buddhists who eat meat, do not do the killing, as it violates the First Precept. You are entitled to your view / opinion, but it's not a Buddhist view at all.

[Spiny Norman]

There is no harm in killing animals to get meat if done appropriately. There may be harm through intensive livestock farming however.

We are animals too. Would you apply the same logic to killing people?

[thepea]

That is a very antiquated and recherché usage. You can refer to the typically-eaten section of an apple as "the meat of the apple" as opposed to "the seeds of the apple," but this is an antiquarian usage of the term. We can also say "the meat of the matter" and we're not referring to food at all necessarily.

It is a fact, meat is food.
A vegan does not eat animals. A vegan does eat meat, every living thing consumes meat.

[thepea]

Killing is part of life and it’s unavoidable. To hold the view one must not kill is extreme and causes stress which is not freedom.

This is not the Buddhist view. Even those Buddhists who eat meat, do not do the killing, as it violates the First Precept. You are entitled to your view / opinion, but it's not a Buddhist view at all.

The precepts are not absolute.
Avoid harming others
Avoid stealing
Avoid .......

The Buddha did not say DO NOT.....

[DNS]

The precepts are not absolute.
Avoid harming others
Avoid stealing
Avoid .......

The Buddha did not say DO NOT.....

Yes, they are absolutes. And yes, it is about abstaining, from killing, etc.

[Ceisiwr]

All living beings must ingest life to sustain life. Killing is part of living.
Eating animal flesh is taking one body and one consciousness, it is no different than swatting a mosquito or eradicating a beetle from a cucumber plant.
Killing is part of life and it’s unavoidable. To hold the view one must not kill is extreme and causes stress which is not freedom.
Better to see clearly with wisdom and cultivate peace with eating and the killing it takes to sustain the body.
Be thankful for your daily bread.

Your understanding of Buddhist ethics is woefully poor.

[thepea]

The precepts are not absolute.
Avoid harming others
Avoid stealing
Avoid .......

The Buddha did not say DO NOT.....

Yes, they are absolutes. And yes, it is about abstaining, from killing, etc.

Abstaining is restraint, you cannot have release(freedom) while being restrained.

[thepea]

All living beings must ingest life to sustain life. Killing is part of living.
Eating animal flesh is taking one body and one consciousness, it is no different than swatting a mosquito or eradicating a beetle from a cucumber plant.
Killing is part of life and it’s unavoidable. To hold the view one must not kill is extreme and causes stress which is not freedom.
Better to see clearly with wisdom and cultivate peace with eating and the killing it takes to sustain the body.
Be thankful for your daily bread.

Your understanding of Buddhist ethics is woefully poor.

Expand on this, qualify your statement.

[Ceisiwr]

All living beings must ingest life to sustain life. Killing is part of living.
Eating animal flesh is taking one body and one consciousness, it is no different than swatting a mosquito or eradicating a beetle from a cucumber plant.
Killing is part of life and it’s unavoidable. To hold the view one must not kill is extreme and causes stress which is not freedom.
Better to see clearly with wisdom and cultivate peace with eating and the killing it takes to sustain the body.
Be thankful for your daily bread.

Your understanding of Buddhist ethics is woefully poor.

Expand on this, qualify your statement.

The Buddha was clearly against intentionally killing a being, in any circumstance. In light of kamma and rebirth it would be better to starve to death than to intentionally kill to eat.

[thepea]

Your understanding of Buddhist ethics is woefully poor.

Expand on this, qualify your statement.

The Buddha was clearly against intentionally killing a being, in any circumstance. In light of kamma and rebirth it would be better to starve to death than to intentionally kill to eat.

I’ve never comprehended sila as an absolutism.
Avoid killing is different from “Though shalt not kill!”
If you starved to death you would simply be reborn into another body that would have to feed off the meat of other living things. Endless cycle.